R32 Sedan - Grip and Drift (have my cake and eat it too build)

[CRSKmD]

15 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Ouch, luckily it's just body.. easy enough to fix up!

Of all the places I could have done the damage I was lucky. Further forwards and I'd have done some suspension and wheel damage, further back the the boot/beaver, tail light and rear bar.

Took it to All Type Crash who did a stellar job pulling out the mess I made.

First they drilled a few small holes to pull out the bulk of it.

They then chased out as much as they could in metal

Coat of primer

Painted up with a decent match in colour.

I just need to cut some new stickers and we're back in business

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Lives another day to cut laps

[CRSKmD]

4 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Cars setup for grip generally don't slide very well, even in the wet!

I've taken my shit box to a few skid pans and it's so hard to hold it sideways. Also having 2mm toe in at the rear doesn't help with sick angles haha

Yeah for sure. A lot of speed and aggression was required to get it sliding and keep it there. Of course I could have changed the setup to suit drift but that is not the main focus of the car so for now I prefer to give it a solid go as is.

[DaymoR32]

37 minutes ago, CRSKmD said:

Of all the places I could have done the damage I was lucky. Further forwards and I'd have done some suspension and wheel damage, further back the the boot/beaver, tail light and rear bar.

Took it to All Type Crash who did a stellar job pulling out the mess I made.

First they drilled a few small holes to pull out the bulk of it.

They then chased out as much as they could in metal

Coat of primer

Painted up with a decent match in colour.

I just need to cut some new stickers and we're back in business

you dont wait about do you! looks like a cracking job on the repair!

[CRSKmD]

14 minutes ago, DaymoR32 said:

you dont wait about do you! looks like a cracking job on the repair!

It made me sad haha

[Kinkstaah]

I'm still impressed at the speed

How did you find someone to do work who actually.... does work?

[CRSKmD]

12 hours ago, Kinkstaah said:

I'm still impressed at the speed

How did you find someone to do work who actually.... does work?

haha while there are some crap places out there. There are also some real gem shops that have been around for years 

[CRSKmD]

After a go over the car we noticed the tail shaft centre bearing was beyond flogged.

a new replacement was sourced.

For people searching in the future part number NP-30-6250 was a direct replacement for R32 RWD centre bearing from, hardy spicer. I was looking to go genuine but this was available in a matter of days not months.

Jackup the car nice and high at the back leaving front on the ground in order to keep the gearbox oil inside and not in my armpit (ask me how i know). Placed on stands before getting under the car

old bearing off (27mm socket, 14mm spanner, 17mm socket) mark the alignment of the shaft first so it goes back together balanced

new one on

 

Also put some new Rack Ends in Part number RE-4760 $28.10 each

[CRSKmD]

went out for a drive to test it out. Proper alignment to be done but felt tighter. 

[CRSKmD]

A shortcoming of my car was the turn in characteristics, having significant understeer on turn in and speaking to a few people I trust including Stewy we can to the conclusion that a lack of caster wasn't doing me any favours.

The old arms were likely more suited to an S14/R33 not R32/S13 as at the max adjustment they only produced ~6.5' of caster. A pair of Acostal HC caster arms were purchased. way overkill clearance wise for me. Especially as i have no plans to remove the front swaybar. But the quality bearings along with steel construction made them the best choice. Long time readers may recall a crash caused by a snapping alloy arm...

The adjustment allowed for more caster than my bumper allowed

Took it in an got a fresh alignment with the caster dialed back to a reasonable level.

I aimed at something suitable for drift but while still being streetable. I ended up with the below alignment.

Front:

Camber: -3° each side

Caster: 7.8° each side

Toe: 2mm out each side. 4mm total out

Rear:

Camber: -1.75° each side

Toe: 0.8mm in each side. 1.6mm total in

I am also trying out a set of the Kenda KR20A soft tyres in 255/40R17 all round for the street wheels courtesy of Sleeka Spares.

[CRSKmD]

Even with the caster as set the tyre grabbed the bumper. The bar was moved forwards as much as practical without cutting it up. the fitment and panel gap is far from ideal but at least im less likely to drive over it. A small diameter front tyre could do the trick but C H O N K.

The added caster was truly a night and day difference on turn in, but sadly the caster along with the alignment has introduced very severe steering bind at full lock. a quick fix was to try and wind some lock out.

Further investigation revealed that my Adjustable lock stops we made up in 2016 are effectively useless now as the knuckle stop actually sits below the lock stop due to me raising the car several inches since. wear marks suggest that at lock throughout the suspension travel the knuckle stop is actually moving up and getting stuck under the lock stop which is adding to the bind.

Track side fix was to literally scour the dirt car park for a big washer and some nuts to enlarge the lock stop target. Which worked, for exactly one lap before bending it. The rest of the day was spent trying to drive around it with less angle or using power to lift the front a little and make it easier to unbind.

Yes that is a wheel nut welded to the LCA with a collection of bolts and washers to clamp the washer...

 

Enjoy some pictures from the latest day.

[GTSBoy]

You can't run large caster for other reasons (beyond your obvious problems from having the wheel too far forward in the well and the steering binding). The bushes in the upper arms cannot tolerate the twisting load that high caster causes, unless you have an arm that will pivot in the centre. The only example of which that I trust is the GKTech one.

I can't see what arms you have, but I can see in one photo the bolt end that indicates stock arms with Whiteline adjustable bushes. If that's what you have, even the 6.5° you were running will trash the bushes tut de suite.

The only other available fix is to change the locations of the holes in the body side bracket for the FUCAs to change (reduce) the "twist angle". There's a thread on here

 and the post I linked shows what needs doing to achieve the mod.

[CRSKmD]

Oh good point completely forgot about that issue.

I used to run around 8.5° On an old setup maybe 6 years  ago with poly bushes and sure enough they died.  Replaced them with spherical upper arms which eventually flogged out and then I went back to a poly arm around the same time I had the cracked alloy caster arm. 

Personally trying to avoid GK tech arms

[CRSKmD]

For a while I'd be living with a mysterious oil leak from vaguely behind the timing covers. After a drive there would be a small puddle under the car. If I ran the valley cover oil would collect under in the coilpacks especially around #1 and #2. If I ran no valley cover there would be a fine mist over most of the engine bay. Everything pointed to bad front main or cam seals as it was impossible to initially see the source as the timing belt would pull everything around.

I tried several times in a day replacing the seals thinking that the issue was one of the front main or cam seals.
I went as far as using genuine nissan goo around the corners of the cam seals etc. But still the issue remained.

This was how it was for longer than I care to admit but with a large sump capacity and limited use it wasn't a big issue.

Finally I found the issue, The VCT gear thing itself was leaking and after speaking to a few people who are highly knowledgeable in RBs the consensus was "huh thats a new one."

 

Anyway incase this is your issue too i post the following run through:

remove the upper timing cover and replace the CAS using the small spacers from in the upper timing cover. Oil behind the VCT timing gear on the timing backing plate. But not behind the backing black on the head around the seals.

 

Oil inside the VCT gear

 

VCT oil gear pressed in seal. Apparently there is an o-ring behind the seal. it was able to rotate independent of the rest of it

 

a test i did to point me in this direction was holding some paper against the backing plate and shining a bright light on the paper to watch the oil spray pattern

 

 

More info in the video showing the tests and the rotating of a bad vs good gear. Also voice reveal lol

 

right after I confirmed the issue was fixed i dropped one of the little CAS spacers down into guts of it. Thankfully I had an inspection camera and a magnet so did not need to remove the timing belt for what would have been the 20th time!

[joshuaho96]

On 11/29/2021 at 10:21 PM, CRSKmD said:

right after I confirmed the issue was fixed i dropped one of the little CAS spacers down into guts of it. Thankfully I had an inspection camera and a magnet so did not need to remove the timing belt for what would have been the 20th time!

Something about these RBs just makes for huge headaches when it comes to dropping bolts. My very first interaction with the car was changing the plugs out to see if it would cure a misfire. I immediately dropped one of the coilpack cover bolts down the intake side of the engine. I called it a total loss and ordered a set of replacement bolts just to have, but I found the original bolt months later jammed in one of the ITBs, right in a little gap between the intake runners and a reinforcing bridge in the part.

Edited November 30, 2021 by joshuaho96

[Looney_Head]

great you found the oil leak, i have a similar oil leak that i am putting off looking into for fear its a massive job, but i might check if the R33 RB25 VCT has the same seal

[CRSKmD]

By the end of the last drift day I had well and truly bent the makeshift lock stop and even managed to crack the welds holding it to the LCA by getting the knuckle stop underneath and then getting it jammed as the suspension moved.

so it was time for a a better solution in the form of some stronger bigger "targets"

 

This bigger target solved the getting jammed under the lock stop issue and made the following days much more enjoyable!

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by CRSKmD

[CRSKmD]

Despite my avoidance of GKtech arms I ultimately decided that I wanted to keep the caster on the high side. I will be keeping a very close watch on these after past experiences but they do look like a great product with solid construction.

 

At the same time i got some more Acostal arms this time in the form of some Rear LCAs.

These or other arms (or even press in spherical bushings) that allowed for higher misalignment were needed as I also wanted to move the front mount for the RLCA to reduce the Anti-Squat characteristics closer to that of an S14 subframe.

 

A fresh alignment done with some slightly different settings

Front:

Camber: -3.3° each side

Caster: 7.5° each side

Toe: 2mm out each side. 4mm total out

 

Rear:

Camber: -1.5° each side

Toe: 1.5mm in each side. 3mm total in

Little extra front camber as i was scrubbing the outside edge of the tyres.

Caster was pulled back a touch to save my bumper while still hopefully keeping that feel.

The extra (almost double) toe in, in the rear should be appropriate to counteract the toe out that happens while the car squats considering the new rear geometry should allow ~45% more squat among the other benefits. 

 

Yet to take it out beyond the drive home from the alignment so we'll see how it goes 

[CRSKmD]

Gave the new suspension and alignment a good test out on the Drifting SA Skidpan at the Bend MotorSport Park.

My thoughts:

• The extra grip and stiffness in the rear end made for a much more consistent and predictable car.
• There seemed to be reduced slop when going over centre up front which helped the steering on transition. Previously it would hesitate on centre and require some encouragement in the form of a quick steering stab.
• The extra rear end grip, even with pressures up a little than normal, required a more commitment to get it sliding.

Or maybe its all in my head ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I also tried some scando entries for the first time as well as using the handbrake to trim some angle off. Big thanks to the guidance from the instructors on the day, especially Daniel Prior.

Enjoy a lap on board below and some great pics taken by a good friend.

 

I have noticed that the outside edge of my front tyres have taken some serious wear. See the comparison with the rears which were not used for drifting. More front camber might be needed to prevent this and you can see in the pictures above that the leading wheels is positive cambered 

[CRSKmD]

Gave the engine bay a good look over before a two day back to back event coming up.

Noticed some slight discolouration around the injector lower seals but of course the combination of injectors and rail meant it was near impossible to remove without splitting the plenum and removing the throttle body. after going back through my own thread to realised I had installed it with the plenum apart when i was refreshing the motor.

Once I pulled them out to inspect the seals and this is how most of them came out

Got a whole new set of the same lower insulator seals I had on there and no mater how evenly I did up the fuel rail or how much silicon spray was used they ended up sitting like this. It just did not feel right.

After some solid googling i realised that the RB25DET NEO ran an O-Ring top and bottom as seen on this stock injector.

Luckily l was able to grab a set of O-Rings from Garage 7

The fitment seemed much better. Though I am yet to drive the car under boost which is a little concerning if they are not the seals I should be using.

As i had to remove the TB during the process I ended up destroying the gasket and was not able to get another one easily/quickly. Luckily I happen to own a Vinyl cutter and with ~$1 of gasket paper I made one.

While I had better access than usual I investigated my other phantom oil leak which seemed to be coming from the black -10 AN swivel fitting.  Initially I tried to tighten it as it felt a little loose. Still leaked.

My next thought is the hose was dud as the fitting seemed to tighten nicely. So I made a new hose and reused the fittings. I degreased the car and sat and watched it with a variety of torches. 5, 10 and 15mins of it idling at ~55C oil and ~77PSI oil pressure went by with not a drop. Great, switched it off and went about cleaning up the work area. When I heard it dripping like a tap. Not a drop when running under pressure but once the car was off away it went. Odd

Took the hose out, cleaned it then did the ol' under water leak test...

Grabbed a new fitting, Made yet another new line (we all know how much a PITA making braided lines is) and put it in.

No leaks when running. Left it while I had dinner and came back and still nice and dry. Success!

Now to hope the injectors still seal under boost. surely if the wrong seal swollen and smooshed was fine these will be?