R32 Sedan - Grip and Drift (have my cake and eat it too build)

[CRSKmD]

11 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

Curious to know what others think of this, in my head this doesn't quite make sense. I'm thinking the explanation is more like the RB25 can keep the turbo spooled for a wider powerband so more power on average -> more heat to dissipate. Everything else kind of seems like a 2nd or 3rd order effect that wouldn't make a 30+C delta in oil temps.

open to other reasons. and i think both sides are true. the RB20 would keep making more power to redline and when graphed over the turbo map it was right in the middle. However, on the 25 it falls over at ~6.5k ish. but comes on sooner so.

Other points that would play a part:

 - The RB25 has a lower redline and revs up slower
 - on full boost from 3700-7250 (3550rpm range)
 - OEM rad shroud and oil cooler in free air with loose ducting

 - The RB20 had a higher redline and reved faster
 - on full boost from 4500-8250 (3750rpm range)
- no rad shroud and oil cooler between intercooler and rad

 - a few years of seat time??

[robbo_rb180]

28 minutes ago, CRSKmD said:

 - a few years of seat time??

^^^This, you would be amazed how much more load you put on a car when confident and experienced.
More 100% throttle in a higher gear and using the car for longer periods. Drifting also is hard on cooling systems as general not getting airflow over the front directly.

I drive a mates 350z and I use third gear (less rpm) more and I can do longer sessions where he uses second bangs off limiter and only gets say 30% less seat time before car gets hot.

[CRSKmD]

2 minutes ago, robbo_rb180 said:

^

 Drifting also is hard on cooling systems as general not getting airflow over the front directly.
 

Drifting yeah not surprising. but 2.5 laps at mallala on a grip circuit day 25°?

[robbo_rb180]

19 minutes ago, CRSKmD said:

Drifting yeah not surprising. but 2.5 laps at mallala on a grip circuit day 25°?

Thats a problem, I think your plans for cooling system will sort it out. I went through similar issues with the sil80 and the ducting is what sorted it out. Try some coreflute(sign board material) to make up temporary ducting to trial it.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/tunnelcore-1200-x-900-x-3mm-black-double-wall-pp-flute-board_p0488078

[CRSKmD]

33 minutes ago, robbo_rb180 said:

Thats a problem, I think your plans for cooling system will sort it out. I went through similar issues with the sil80 and the ducting is what sorted it out. Try some coreflute(sign board material) to make up temporary ducting to trial it.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/tunnelcore-1200-x-900-x-3mm-black-double-wall-pp-flute-board_p0488078

yeah hoping to duct at least the intercooler/radiator before the next grip event if not the oil/pws coolers too.
corflute is a great idea.

[CRSKmD]

New radiator and oil cooler have arrived

obligatory comparison shot

taking car of some small easy gaps first before I tackle some ducting. Just used some adhesive foam with a heat rating to 150C to fill this little gap air may take to bypass the radiator.

Oil cooler comparison

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

cooling looks good now!

[CRSKmD]

Next track day is in 1 week. Hopefully I can fit the oil cooler then get ducting and water sprayers sorted before then

[CRSKmD]

Got the fiancé onboard to make a intake heatshield. I am still skeptical how much benefit this will really give on a turbo car but i guess colder air in should be colder air out.

 

[CRSKmD]

Unfortunately the new oil cooler did not quiet clear the intercooler pipes to fit inside the drivers side guard where I intended. So it was back to in between the intercooler and the AC condenser.

While this may not be great for adding heat it is much safer especially for drift and my affinity for sending it into tyre stacks

Mounted up the water sprayers. Because I originally intended for the oil cooler to be mounted else where I bought a single nozzle sprayer to go with it. Figured I should still use it so I mounted it between the intercooler and the oil cooler.

Edited April 16 by CRSKmD
typo

[CRSKmD]

Next up was from CAD🙃 work for making up some ducting.

Transferred the template to some scrap 3mm aluminum I picked up and added some pinchweld with gasket to help with  sealing.

The same process was used to cover the other large gaps.

Made a bracket up to hold the water sprayer tanks (5L each for 10L total). 

The pump for the water sprayers was installed where the battery used to be, which was relocated to the left hand side.

While I was cleaning things up I decided to remake the aircup system mount.

Before: which made more sense when i had a full boot trim and sub/amps

After


The boot feels and is likely more balanced now.

[GTSBoy]

35 minutes ago, CRSKmD said:

Transferred the template to some scrap 3mm aluminum I picked up and added some pinchweld with gasket to help with  sealing.

Nice. I just use black corflute for these. Light, cheap, disposable if necessary.

[CRSKmD]

Just now, GTSBoy said:

Nice. I just use black corflute for these. Light, cheap, disposable if necessary.

yeah that was my plan but then the scraps of 3mm aluminum were free

[GTSBoy]

12 minutes ago, CRSKmD said:

yeah that was my plan but then the scraps of 3mm aluminum were free

Half your luck. I just had to buy a piece of 4mm ally to make a flange because I couldn't find any suitable scrap in the places I spend time!

[robbo_rb180]

Nice work on the shroud/ducting.

 

[CRSKmD]

Hard to say exactly which cooling upgrade had the most effect but the combined outcome allowed me to do 8 hot laps at Mallala back to back on a 22C day without me seeing the oil temp exceeding 106C or water 95C without the water sprayers being on.

I have not checked the data logs yet to confirm the max temps, but it was certainly a success.

[CRSKmD]

An issue I had with my current setup was no way to adjust front camber to a point I needed it while also not negatively effecting Caster. Thanks to the way the R32 front end was designed if you lengthen the Front upper camber arm (FUCA) to reduce camber you also reduce caster. This also resulted with the wheel sitting forward in the guard where 7.5° caster was but only actually having 6.5°. 

In order to have the caster back where I needed it to be I had to shorten the FUCA which of course added negative camber to the tune of -4.8° which was a little extreme for a grip/street alignment.

The solution was to shorten the Lower Control Arm (LCA) by going back to a stock R32 one. The risk here was what if it was too short and caused issue with the drift alignment. So instead I "had" to opt for a custom adjustable LCA.

Once again Stewy from Acostal was able to accommodate my have my cake and eat it too build by making some shortened 210 series arms. As long as I was willing to help with some of the die grinding on them.
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R33 LCA + Acostal 110 Caster arm (both for sale 😘) vs new Acostal 210 full LCA/Caster arm.

Close up of new arm. Adjustments include LCA length, Caster, Bump stop and Roll center correction.

New arm installed and sway bar dropped


Roughly setup by eye in the +5° Ackerman setting



May have measured camber wrong as once checked on level ground with my phone it looks like -5° Camber and I will hopefully sort it out on the aligner. thankfully I now have on car adjustable camber.




You wouldn't know it but the front wheel here has effective specs of 17x9 -10!

[CRSKmD]

Unfortunately we ended up not quite getting to where I wanted alignment wise. Ideally I was targeting -3.5 to -3.8 camber as a good compromise for drift/grip/street. But due to the combination of custom configuration custom parts and the relationship between caster and camber (as you reduce camber you also reduce caster) on R32 we ended up at:

Front
Camber -4.5°
Caster +7°
Toe -4mm toe out each side. -8mm total

Rear
Camber -1.5°
Toe 2mm in each side 4mm total in

Perfect for drift but will be a touch too much camber for circuit. Thankfully the arms being modular means a change to one simple bracket will give me the adjustment I need to get to -3.7° camber and keep the caster at 7°.

[US-R32-Ian]

Woah! Can't believe I stumbled into this thread - I've had my R32 sedan about as long as you've had yours, and looks like we have both done similar mods to try to get past these RB cooling issues. Such a rad car, love what you've done to it!

[CRSKmD]

Couple of pics I have seen from Winterfest. Videos (hopefully) and write up to come.