R32 Sedan - Grip and Drift (have my cake and eat it too build)

[CRSKmD]

Just now, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

You'll find the HC+ are better than the HC800, although all the Australian resellers will say "they're the same", yet when you look at the HC+ it is made in Japan and the HC800, well are made in Thailand

And yes, the HC+ perform better too. Have used both HC800 and HC+ so yeah, good choice on the HC+

yeah i heard the same that it was same compound but different manufatoring plant
but then from what i read HC800 was good from 0C -800C and HC+ was more like 20C to 800C+
so better on track but not as good initial cold bite

[CRSKmD]

Wiring time. I had put this off in the hope that someone else would do it for me but with the deadline for it being taken to tune fast approaching it was time. I wanted to keep the RB25DET Neo loom rather than mod my 20 loom to fit. this was mainly as i had bought a LINK ECU plug and play for the GTT

ECU plug looked like this... bit of work with a carby jet drill solved the smooshed plug.

stripped back the RB25DET Neo Stagea loom and my R32 RB20DET loom and went through and labelled all the important plugs and pins i needed to match up.

made up one of these for each of the plugs then a reference of what to cut and add where.
i tried to keep track of every thing i did in the hope of making a guide in the near future for those who undertake the same conversion. I just want to ensure it all works first.

 

Day before  it was booked in for fabrication  the loom was all together and wrapped up after a few tests for voltage at each Pin.

After getting the Link to talk to my laptop and playing with a few settings to roughly have it correct to start, injector sizes and what sensors was on each I/O this happened

by 12:30am it looked like this

8:30 am the next day it wash pushed back and ready for picking up

[CRSKmD]

Fabrication done. all alloy piping 2" hot side for response, 2.75" cold side to match TB and a big ol' Aeroflow core

also sneaky catch can drain

[yaze]

I'd make some sort of lock for that drain too because if that opens it'll be pretty shitty.

[CRSKmD]

5 hours ago, yaze said:

I'd make some sort of lock for that drain too because if that opens it'll be pretty shitty.

yeah there is a little latch on it which we have secured by putting a bolt through the hole. cant undo tap without taking the bolt out

 

[yaze]

17 minutes ago, CRSKmD said:

yeah there is a little latch on it which we have secured by putting a bolt through the hole. cant undo tap without taking the bolt out

 

Sounds good then, Just an off topic question. Do you know any wreckers that would sell skyline parts in SA?

 

[CRSKmD]

20 minutes ago, yaze said:

Sounds good then, Just an off topic question. Do you know any wreckers that would sell skyline parts in SA?

 

Japanese import Spares, Grand auto and nisswreck are the main ones

[Jordy32]

New pipes look great, very tidy job!

[CRSKmD]

1 hour ago, Jordy32 said:

New pipes look great, very tidy job!

yeah Vulcan Performance Fabrication here in Adelaide did a great job. im happy i went all Alloy mandrel bends this time as much as i liked the SS lobster pipes

[CRSKmD]

Tune is done!

Anyone who had spoken to me about the Neo swap power expectations knows that the maths says the TD05 would be too small and become a restriction at ~6000rpm. As the turbo made 290kw on the RB20DET where it was bang in the middle of the compressor map we thought on the RB25DET it would make 250-270kw up top but be super punchy through the low and mid range.....


But the little TD05 went above and beyond all expectations cracking 340kw up top before falling over a bit at 6500rpm.

The 44mm gate was a bit too small for this motor/turbo combination which can be seen in the boost graph below. 17.8psi is the lowest it can run with a bit of overshoot before it settles due to the amount of gas that is trying to flow out the small hole.

Solid result and more than happy just means no low boost mode and need to control boost with the right foot 

red graph is the old 290kw RB20DET graph with the same turbo (except 8cm vs 10cm)

Dyno Video

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Amazing, just proves RB20s are shit LOL

[CRSKmD]

5 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Amazing, just proves RB20s are shit LOL

RB20ftw 25's in the bin haha

nah hands down the 20 still sounds better. harsher, revs up faster and actually it was noticeable louder with the same exhaust.

in comparison the 25 sounds lazy and mellow

[CRSKmD]

But the 25 is gonna drive mint
Hopefully its as bullet proof as the 20 was

[mtnickel]

Damn. After checking the Dyno thread found your build! I too had done the maths and figured the TD05 and 18g would be a reasonable combo for the RB25 on a stock block looking for about high 200's or maybe just 300kw...especially for a street car.

I went with the same turbo 3 years ago:

Kinugawa td05 - 18g billet extended wheel. 10cm V-band housing. 44mm gate. Stock manifold. Greddy IM. RB25 S2.

Never had it dyno'd, but the response is pretty good and I pushed it to about 12psi which I figured was around 220kw (on nistune). With a NEO head, another 6 psi, and better exhaust manifold, looks like your numbers are exactly what you could expect to max the turbo out at. I'd wager even if you added more boost, you'd only see more midrange torque, but the HP limit is probably about maxed based on the compressor map. 

Hats off to your for disregarding the internet experts and running what seems like a good fit. 

While I enjoy the turbo, I really want the sound of an equal length manifold, so I got a little bit of the "while I'm at it" syndrome and am going to swap to an EFR6758 or EFR7163. I'd like to crack 300kw (400whp), but would settle for mid high 200's too. Will see how the response of them compares to the TD05. Now looking at your graph, I'd probably have been fine to stick with same turbo. Hindsight is 20:20.

Nice build.

[CRSKmD]

On 5/8/2018 at 2:39 AM, mtnickel said:

Damn. After checking the Dyno thread found your build! I too had done the maths and figured the TD05 and 18g would be a reasonable combo for the RB25 on a stock block looking for about high 200's or maybe just 300kw...especially for a street car.

Spoiler

 

I went with the same turbo 3 years ago:

Kinugawa td05 - 18g billet extended wheel. 10cm V-band housing. 44mm gate. Stock manifold. Greddy IM. RB25 S2.

Never had it dyno'd, but the response is pretty good and I pushed it to about 12psi which I figured was around 220kw (on nistune). With a NEO head, another 6 psi, and better exhaust manifold, looks like your numbers are exactly what you could expect to max the turbo out at. I'd wager even if you added more boost, you'd only see more midrange torque, but the HP limit is probably about maxed based on the compressor map. 

Hats off to your for disregarding the internet experts and running what seems like a good fit. 

While I enjoy the turbo, I really want the sound of an equal length manifold, so I got a little bit of the "while I'm at it" syndrome and am going to swap to an EFR6758 or EFR7163. I'd like to crack 300kw (400whp), but would settle for mid high 200's too. Will see how the response of them compares to the TD05. Now looking at your graph, I'd probably have been fine to stick with same turbo. Hindsight is 20:20.

 

Nice build.

Cheers mate,

There is definitely no more peak power in it the turbo is maxed for sure
the 44mm gate paired with this turbo, manifold. and neo head was too small so boost control had to be very mild at the start to prevent spiking. so potentially a bigger gate and re-set the boost control would see a bit more mid range

[CRSKmD]

before the first track day with the new setup i thought i should address the on going issue of the power steering fluid boiling over.
i also wanted to avoid smashing ripple strips with it and keep it protected so i positioned it up high and horizontal. (don't worry a scoop will be fitted to help direct air)

couple of steel brackets to bolt from rear to guard/body and then plumbed in line .

 

[CRSKmD]

First shakedown of the new motor, ECU, brakes, and tyres setup did not go to plan.

even during warm up laps i had massive fluid (oil and fuel) control issues with the Link hitting safety cuts at basically every corner and under hard acceleration and braking. 
Data logs shows that at 5800rpm oil pressure had dropped to 15psi!

i also managed to bend a rear LCA 

luckily a mate had a spare one and his dad was kind enough to drive it out to the track for us. I got it swapped back in and drove up to the gate... just in time for the marshal to close the gate as the end of the day had come about. *hello darkness my old friend* plays

still with the issues and limited track time i managed to drive there, beat my PB and drive back home. 

[CRSKmD]

In order to address the oil control issues i first looked into an oil accumulator. However after checking the logs it was deemed that an accumulator alone would not be suitable for how bad my oil control issues were. The accumulator would essentially be firing all the time which would not allow sufficient time for it to refill before the next corner. The oil pressure would also drop while the accumulator was refilling.

it was decided that a proper baffled/gated sump would do more to fix my issues. Of course both an accumulator and a baffled sump would be better but $$$$$.

As my motor had a Cast alloy AWD sump converted to RWD the stock baffling situation was even worse (than a stock rwd sump). the comparison between the new Hi-Octane extended sump and the stock one can be seen below.

now this sump came from the G7 Targa GTR so was still AWD which mean i needed to get yet another sump converted to rwd. (my old RB20/25/26 AWD -> RWD sump is for sale if anyone is keen)

an extended pickup was also needed for the Hi Octane sump 

in order to fit the sump the plan was to hold the motor up with an engine brace. lower the sub-frame and sway bar. Then remove the sump while keeping the motor and Gearbox in the car.

This almost worked and in 40mins we were at the point of taking the sump off and had undone all of the sump bolts...except for 4x 10mm bolts located at the back of the sump...

in order to get to these f**kers the gearbox had to come off. initially we thought maybe just moving the box back 15-20mm would work however the flex plate between the flywheel and the motor had other ideas. So box, clutch and flywheel all off 

with that all done and the new sump on it was time for everything to come together which fine until the sway bar

Apparently a whiteline sway-bar has 20-30mm more clearance so thats the plan from here.

[CRSKmD]

during some internetting i noticed that there was a difference between GTST and GTR pedals. and while getting some other parts i asked and they had a GTR one for $25 so figured id give it a go.

GTR vs GTST Accelerator pedals. The GTR pedal is shaped differently and is much closer to the brake especially on the bottom. I assume for easier heel toe and prob GTR tax.

The spring on the GTR pedal is lighter which is probable due to ITB vs single TB? For the time being im trying out the lighter spring and as long as it closes throttle and there is no oscillation should be fine.

 

[CRSKmD]

Used whiteline sway bar acquired. Gave it a clean up and some fresh paint. mile more clearance than stock as you can see below. So Whiteline sway bars for R32 skyline have ~20-25mm more clearance than the stock one which is good for the new Hi-Octane baffled/extended sump