R34 Gtr Garrett -5 Turbo Lag, Need Advise

[XGTRX]

Yeah I don't get it either GTRPSI. People try to convince themselves and others that -5s are like a switch that come on at 4500 rpm which is total garbage. The slight loss you have down low is more than made up from 4500 onwards. And part throttle response is more that adequate when you need it. Not only the s2000 needs revs as you mentioned but don't forget the rotas spinning their symphonies. Like you I just don't experience all these theories of un-livable lag in the real world

[RBN1]

Having a good read through this. Different strokes for different folks eh?

Guess it's all what you're using the car for I guess?

Track? Dyno bragging rights? Bragging rights in general? Daily street driving?- which personally I think a RB26 based GTR isn't the best for in this day and age, even with responsive turbos. - multiple different reasons for that.

Lets put it this way my car, i've had for 10 years now. Right now it's running on 98 running -9's with 335rwkw. It's ridiculous on the road in terms of power and power delivery IMHO. What are people doing with -5's with what I can only assume more power and driving all the time above 3500rpm on the road etc? Where are all this magical places where it's safe to constantly do this without also looking a bit silly revving a noisy car that high on a *public road*

[mr skidz]

Having a good read through this. Different strokes for different folks eh?

Guess it's all what you're using the car for I guess?

Track? Dyno bragging rights? Bragging rights in general? Daily street driving?- which personally I think a RB26 based GTR isn't the best for in this day and age, even with responsive turbos. - multiple different reasons for that.

Lets put it this way my car, i've had for 10 years now. Right now it's running on 98 running -9's with 335rwkw. It's ridiculous on the road in terms of power and power delivery IMHO. What are people doing with -5's with what I can only assume more power and driving all the time above 3500rpm on the road etc? Where are all this magical places where it's safe to constantly do this without also looking a bit silly revving a noisy car that high on a *public road*

what are people doing?

chopping guys with -9's lol

[Hadouken]

And now its a pissing contest. We can all go for peak power but everyone knows its whats under the curve that counts

[mr skidz]

why dont we all have the "you dont need a fast car argument you just need a car to get you from A to B"

[mr skidz]

if it wasn't everyone would have -7's and be done.

why go -9's its a street car on public roads?

[Mick_o]

^^^Because 9's are every bit as responsive as the 7's & make more power so the 7's become obsolete

Edited February 21, 2015 by Mick_o

[baicai]

Ive been quitely haveing a chuckle at this thread, and this is the first real post thats nailed it.

If you want linear power with no lag, some people should realize they need to fit smaller turbos and get rid of the high power dreams or just go and buy a NA.

How would most here survive driving a S2000, the cars dont produce anything under 6500, yet they are blindingly quick when driven as they are designed to be.

If you think -5 are too big and you want more power, shift down a gear to get them into their RPM range or fit small turbos, it shouldnt take pages to relize its in the driving style or turbo choice.

I know what your saying, I used to own an S2000 for nearly 10 years and Vtec only kicked at 6000 rpm, but it would rev to 9000 and actually had good response below 5000 rpm. So I'm used to high reving machines with little torque.

But the the twin turbo Gtr is a totally different car, it's much heavier and has more traction due to bigger wheels and tyres. By changing to -5 turbos has compound the feel of lag as in not just waiting for power to come but also if your not in the right gear in traffic you feel like a sitting duck. Yes I can adjust my driving style which I have been to be in a lower gear say 3500-4000 just to be in boost. What I'm wanting is to have max boost dropped from 5000 rpm to 4500 or 4000 so there is more response in traffic. I know it will never be responsive like a NA car just can't get used to talking to my friends about what they did on the weekend and waiting for boost to come on.

It's like, "hang on mate just wait it's coming, wont be long now, how was your weekend, ok here it comes" boost hits max, feels like a forever.

[RBN1]

if it wasn't everyone would have -7's and be done.

why go -9's its a street car on public roads?

Sorry mate, your response is a bit scattered. That question aimed at me? If so no, it's now not a daily.

I went the -9's after having a bit of a drive of multiple cars with 2.6's with -9's, -5's, 2.8's with -5's etc. It will probably end up a 2.8 in the coming years.

My car isn't a daily drive. Only really sometimes on a weekend but mostly events. Tech has moved on and they are brilliant on the track but a bit rough on the street, being late 80's tech. They cost close to 80-100k to build a truly fast one and for that $ there are better cars out there for the $ ( a stock 35R comes to mind)

[France]

I have -5s on my car and i reckon its fine for the streets. Im not too sure why anyone would need to be at full boost on the street anyway. An RB26 with -5's should be making more power than the majority of general commuter cars when the turbos start to spool up anyway (i.e. sub 4,500rpm) should you need that extra bit of grunt to overtake someone.

[mr skidz]

Sorry mate, your response is a bit scattered. That question aimed at me? If so no, it's now not a daily.

I went the -9's after having a bit of a drive of multiple cars with 2.6's with -9's, -5's, 2.8's with -5's etc. It will probably end up a 2.8 in the coming years.

My car isn't a daily drive. Only really sometimes on a weekend but mostly events. Tech has moved on and they are brilliant on the track but a bit rough on the street, being late 80's tech. They cost close to 80-100k to build a truly fast one and for that $ there are better cars out there for the $ ( a stock 35R comes to mind)

well you said what are people doing with -5's driving round on the streets <that was a scattered comment make no sense. they obviously dont care about the side effects off the 5's and dont wanna get smoked by evo's n wrx's.

[XKLABA]

OP, simple answer to your question, turbos need to breath to be responsive, so allow them to breath in with good intake and breath out with good free flowing exhaust ( for -5s 3.5" or bigger ) then once that is sorted get it on a dyno and spend some time dialing in the cam timing, done right and you should pickup off boost power as well

And now its a pissing contest. We can all go for peak power but everyone knows its whats under the curve that counts

I believe it's more drag times that matter, as much as I prefer circiut drag gives you a good idea of how your car performs

MPH = power to weight

ET = car setup

ET v MPH = response

And while all three are effected by each other each individually will give a good idea

[paulr33]

suggest going to another workshop for some advice

it could be something simple and obvious thats been missed or it could in fact be the turbocharger setup

[Borci88]

I think at the end of the day, the guys running standard RB26s SHOULD be aiming for -7s or -9s. It's all well and good to say how much better -5s are and how they're not laggy on the street (which they are lets be real), but at the end of the day a stock motor is going to last a lot longer at 340kw with the smaller turbos than it is with -5s and 380kw, and they're probably gonna do the same quarter mile.

If you've got a built motor and preferably a 2.8, sure, -5s are perfect... Stock motor and -5s? No thanks, I've been in built 2.6s with -5s and found them mediocre off boost. Fantastic on boost... but just not fantastic off boost, which is where most people do 90% of their driving, and no, I'm not changing my driving style to drive above 3500rpm.

[Roy]

I was at Racepace yesterday. They had several of their uber 3" front pipes sitting on the floor. Almost bought one myself but need to get sump sorted first.

Grab some HPI or other 3" dumps and 90% of your troubles will be over ...even with your current exhaust. By the time gases have cooled and hit the exhaust...at the power level you have it will be fine

[GTRPSI]

I know what your saying, I used to own an S2000 for nearly 10 years and Vtec only kicked at 6000 rpm, but it would rev to 9000 and actually had good response below 5000 rpm. So I'm used to high reving machines with little torque.

But the the twin turbo Gtr is a totally different car, it's much heavier and has more traction due to bigger wheels and tyres. By changing to -5 turbos has compound the feel of lag as in not just waiting for power to come but also if your not in the right gear in traffic you feel like a sitting duck. Yes I can adjust my driving style which I have been to be in a lower gear say 3500-4000 just to be in boost. What I'm wanting is to have max boost dropped from 5000 rpm to 4500 or 4000 so there is more response in traffic. I know it will never be responsive like a NA car just can't get used to talking to my friends about what they did on the weekend and waiting for boost to come on.

It's like, "hang on mate just wait it's coming, wont be long now, how was your weekend, ok here it comes" boost hits max, feels like a forever.

Ok so your saying your S2000 started from 6K and red lined at 9K so you had a 3K window and you drove to those points when you wanted to go quick. (like all S2000's)

So whats your points on the GTR, get the picture?

Sure, your tune must be out to be on song at 5K, we have all been telling you that, with a tune you should be on song at 4.5K, take it out to 7.5-8KK and bobs your uncle, theres your 3K+ window.

Sheez, we had -10's on our GTR and we had no lag issues and they were ther kings of lag.....well i did have to show my son how to drive it.....like a S2000, get the revs up to 5K, take it out to 8.5K my boy, it worked and he was a happy camper, all of a sudden better cars were behind him.

Speaking of which my daily is a stock FG Turbo Ute on Injected LPG.

0-80, so far no issues with HSV's Evos, Sti, M3's AMG's and just last night i played with a R35 which natuarally kicked my butt as you would expect, however looking at the footage from my onboard camera, not as easily as i would have expected when he did use lauch control, i expected a lot more, when we ran without him using launch control he was in my rear view mirror, to be fair my reaction time was better and he just stayed glued to my rear quater panel but couldnt pull me in to 80 when i backed off.

Now with FG Turbos, they got a smaller Turbo than the F6 models...smart person wont try to run anything over 80/100Kmh, as i start running out of puff, they come alive and start to catch up and pass.

Same story with -5 VS the smaller variants, while the smaller turbo may seem quick at lower speeds, the larger ones will walk past you once the speeds increase.

If your using your GTR to go shopping, fit the smallest turbo, you will feel great at legal speeds, but i dont know about you but i dont own a GTR to be quick to 80 and to convince myself im driving legally.

Who cares about 0-80, if you want to be quick there get a FG turbo as a daily.

-5's are perfect if you want to push the car occasionally, Im not going to run mums and dads in Corrolas.

Learn to drive with them, man up, get your speed right and shift down a gear when you want to run, or if doing a standing start learn to launch it properly.

[mr skidz]

Ok so your saying your S2000 started from 6K and red lined at 9K so you had a 3K window and you drove to those points when you wanted to go quick. (like all S2000's)

So whats your points on the GTR, get the picture?

Sure, your tune must be out to be on song at 5K, we have all been telling you that, with a tune you should be on song at 4.5K, take it out to 7.5-8KK and bobs your uncle, theres your 3K+ window.

Sheez, we had -10's on our GTR and we had no lag issues and they were ther kings of lag.....well i did have to show my son how to drive it.....like a S2000, get the revs up to 5K, take it out to 8.5K my boy, it worked and he was a happy camper, all of a sudden better cars were behind him.

Speaking of which my daily is a stock FG Turbo Ute on Injected LPG.

0-80, so far no issues with HSV's Evos, Sti, M3's AMG's and just last night i played with a R35 which natuarally kicked my butt as you would expect, however looking at the footage from my onboard camera, not as easily as i would have expected when he did use lauch control, i expected a lot more, when we ran without him using launch control he was in my rear view mirror, to be fair my reaction time was better and he just stayed glued to my rear quater panel but couldnt pull me in to 80 when i backed off.

Now with FG Turbos, they got a smaller Turbo than the F6 models...smart person wont try to run anything over 80/100Kmh, as i start running out of puff, they come alive and start to catch up and pass.

Same story with -5 VS the smaller variants, while the smaller turbo may seem quick at lower speeds, the larger ones will walk past you once the speeds increase.

If your using your GTR to go shopping, fit the smallest turbo, you will feel great at legal speeds, but i dont know about you but i dont own a GTR to be quick to 80 and to convince myself im driving legally.

Who cares about 0-80, if you want to be quick there get a FG turbo as a daily.

-5's are perfect if you want to push the car occasionally, Im not going to run mums and dads in Corrolas.

Learn to drive with them, man up, get your speed right and shift down a gear when you want to run, or if doing a standing start learn to launch it properly.

spot on i agree

[XGTRX]

I love my alfa and it's 43 wkws doesn't come in till 4500 rpm. It's a lag monster.

[baicai]

Ok so your saying your S2000 started from 6K and red lined at 9K so you had a 3K window and you drove to those points when you wanted to go quick. (like all S2000's)

So whats your points on the GTR, get the picture?

Sure, your tune must be out to be on song at 5K, we have all been telling you that, with a tune you should be on song at 4.5K, take it out to 7.5-8KK and bobs your uncle, theres your 3K+ window.

Sheez, we had -10's on our GTR and we had no lag issues and they were ther kings of lag.....well i did have to show my son how to drive it.....like a S2000, get the revs up to 5K, take it out to 8.5K my boy, it worked and he was a happy camper, all of a sudden better cars were behind him.

Speaking of which my daily is a stock FG Turbo Ute on Injected LPG.

0-80, so far no issues with HSV's Evos, Sti, M3's AMG's and just last night i played with a R35 which natuarally kicked my butt as you would expect, however looking at the footage from my onboard camera, not as easily as i would have expected when he did use lauch control, i expected a lot more, when we ran without him using launch control he was in my rear view mirror, to be fair my reaction time was better and he just stayed glued to my rear quater panel but couldnt pull me in to 80 when i backed off.

Now with FG Turbos, they got a smaller Turbo than the F6 models...smart person wont try to run anything over 80/100Kmh, as i start running out of puff, they come alive and start to catch up and pass.

Same story with -5 VS the smaller variants, while the smaller turbo may seem quick at lower speeds, the larger ones will walk past you once the speeds increase.

If your using your GTR to go shopping, fit the smallest turbo, you will feel great at legal speeds, but i dont know about you but i dont own a GTR to be quick to 80 and to convince myself im driving legally.

Who cares about 0-80, if you want to be quick there get a FG turbo as a daily.

-5's are perfect if you want to push the car occasionally, Im not going to run mums and dads in Corrolas.

Learn to drive with them, man up, get your speed right and shift down a gear when you want to run, or if doing a standing start learn to launch it properly.

You're missing the point, driving at the track both cars are fine, I'm talking about the occasional drive from point A to B. When the Gtr is off boost, and you're in a normal gear in traffic trying to pass a car and there isn't a lot of time or space to let it get into full boost. You can't always be in 2nd gear at 5000 rpm. Now while the S2000 probably had less power and torque at the same rpm as the Gtr, it is alot lighter and being NA the reponse is quicker.

Now my car before the turbo change was very responsive and great street car, but like I said before it's a weekend car and I do want to take it to the tracks more often so -5 was a better choice for me as opposed to -7 & -9 which are better suited to street driving. All I want to do is to lower the max boost from 5000 rpm to 4000-4500 so it can be a bit more drivable on the streets that's all.

[GTRPSI]

Get your tuner to look at it, -5's should be on song at 4500, get him to check your accuators are shutting properly so your not losing anything and advance the cam timing a few degrees to add bottom end while adjusting the tune.

In our books, nothing can be as laggy as a S2000 compared to a GTR on -5's, yet you see it the other way around.

In both cars, step down a gear or 2, get it in the zone, feed the power on, no issues.

How would you overtake in a 1.3L manual?

Its just a matter of picking your revs to the situation and driving as the vehicle responds.

We know of a GTR thats been to 2 tuners, owner of the vehicle commented on how much bottom end power he picked up with the second tuner, what use to be laggy is a totally different vehicle now after getting a second tuner to look at it.

Fuel graphs timing etc were all over the place, the vehicle owner was shocked when he saw the before and after results.

Once you have that part sorted readjust your driving to suit the vehicles setup.

The way we drive a GTR compared to a S2000 is quite different, however the theory on where the power is, is the same, if your not in the zone and you want to be brisk, its a slug.

However your tune, can totally change the power dynamics, if its setup to come on up top, you will have nothing down low, if the tune is crap overall expect lower power everywhere.

And remember, being a GTR (heavy) it will not feel as racey as a S2000, but it will be a shit load quicker if sorted.