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Haltech Elite On A M35

sav man

By sav man,
in Four Door Family & Wagoneers

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sav man Grand Master

sav man

Posted
Posted

Has anyone on here done it? Mercury Motorsport put on facebook that they have wired one in. I messaged them about it and they confirmed that they have done it, but it's slow getting info as they only reply once a day. I'm keen to get some more info on it

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https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/454433-haltech-elite-on-a-m35/
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scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

Probably the same guy that did the manual conversion, but he could have bought an r35 for the coin he's dropped into it so far. 3 years on and it still doesn't move?

I have tried to get support from Haltech to wire in a PS2000 or now the Elite, they have made it very clear they wouldn't help. Hopefully Mercury can sort it out and send Haltech the base map, i'm not holding my breath though.

Glad it isn't me coughing up the 8-10 grand I suspect it will likely run to.

Beregron Community Regular

Beregron

Posted
Posted

look what he is attempting to build as well..... 4.2lt VQ35 / 800 awhp. Not surprising the amount of coin that's going into it.

I guess like everyone else i'm not that fussed what option works... (Haltech / Microtech / Adaptronic) i guess it's just picking an option and biting the bullet in terms of $$$.

I find it pretty poor from a company if they won't support thier own product tho.

Beregron Community Regular

Beregron

Posted
Posted

It seems the few Haltech tuners i have talked to are all "fairly" confident that it will work but there is zero way to tell until you plug it in and start the process... and at that stage you are already what?? $2800 odd in a hole for the unit itself and the initial hours of a tuners time just to find out if it's going to work...

No way to tell this before your money is gone.

Like some people on here i am happy to drop money into tuning (i love my M35) but i would feel a lot better about if if i knew that a particular method WILL work after the many hours of dyno time. If i am going into something with a whole heap of if's and maybe's it's harder to make that decision...

I guess this gets back to the whole manual conversion thing... I know it can be done (see Leks_auto) but once my M35 is sporting a 6 speed i'm back at this same tuning problem.

I'm not giving up yet as my M35 isn't going anywhere. I suspect a hell of a lot of cash will be spent by me yet.

Beregron Community Regular

Beregron

Posted
Posted

Response from Mercury (probably won't be breaking news for some of the people here)

"Ok the m35 stagea is an absolute pain in the but to say the least due to the fly by wire throttle and auto……

Now if u keep the fly by wire throttle but go manual then all ull need is the elite ecu wired in…

If u had a cable throttle body then you can run the platinum pro plug in for a 350z..

We had to retain the factory ecu for transmission control witch still isnt 100%...."

Ok so now comes my complete lack of knowledge but i saw somewhere on one of those mighty car mods vids when they were building that wagon and used some sort of electronic throttle during turning. Is this one of those expensive as poison things or not something we can use even if we go the haltech elite option? Or is this another can of worms?

Cause i am thinking if i go the RWD option and want to tune it reading what Mercury has said i can keep the drive by wire and simply use a Haltech Elite (yes i know this is a decent amount of $$$). If i have some sort of cable throttle then i still have options of a Platinum pro.

Brick Mentor

Brick

Posted
Posted

Response from Mercury (probably won't be breaking news for some of the people here)

"Ok the m35 stagea is an absolute pain in the but to say the least due to the fly by wire throttle and auto……

Now if u keep the fly by wire throttle but go manual then all ull need is the elite ecu wired in…

If u had a cable throttle body then you can run the platinum pro plug in for a 350z..

We had to retain the factory ecu for transmission control witch still isnt 100%...."

Ok so now comes my complete lack of knowledge but i saw somewhere on one of those mighty car mods vids when they were building that wagon and used some sort of electronic throttle during turning. Is this one of those expensive as poison things or not something we can use even if we go the haltech elite option? Or is this another can of worms?

Cause i am thinking if i go the RWD option and want to tune it reading what Mercury has said i can keep the drive by wire and simply use a Haltech Elite (yes i know this is a decent amount of $$$). If i have some sort of cable throttle then i still have options of a Platinum pro.

They are correct about the above. I am running an Adaptronic ecu and a cable throttle for this reason. Cable throttle is not the perfect option with the auto and has some negatives but also positives.

Negatives the standard ecu will not see what you are doing with the throttle so you will not get a kick back when you are driving in drive mode. The car will shift just using the cars speed instead.

Positives - the throttle does what you tell it. I found it shifts faster and closer to when you tell it to (still not instant) on the freeway due to it not kicking back you don't have the constant hunting for gears I found it used to do. It also shifts down gears better.

I drive my car in manual mode all the time so none of the above negatives really matter, and the positives are great. but the mrs isn't a fan as she drives in auto all the time and doesn't have the same go fast she used to love.

Beregron Community Regular

Beregron

Posted
Posted (edited)

So if i am understanding this correctly if i eliminate the auto (yes i have zero reason to spend anymore money on my M35 if i keep the auto) and go manual, which carries it's own issues, then keeping the drive by wire and adding a Halteck Elite will do the job. I'm not relying on the auto to change gears if i convert to manual so who cares if i keep it happy(i keep mine in manual most of the time too now).

Is there any huge benifit to go cable if the car is converted to manual? The Haltech Elite eliminates the need to keep the standard ECU yes? If so it won't matter about keeping it happy with when the car is shifting etc??

Cheers for the input too Josh.

Edited by Beregron
Beregron Community Regular

Beregron

Posted
Posted

Oh and Mercury mentioned they had to keep the standard ECU for transmission control?!? Would this have something to do witht he fact they retained the AWD (getrag GTR box?) Or is this a limitation of the Haltech Elite in that it can't control it? Or is this something about the M35 itself and it just likes to be a bastard and the control for the transmission is a rubix cube?!?

Brick Mentor

Brick

Posted
Posted

Oh and Mercury mentioned they had to keep the standard ECU for transmission control?!? Would this have something to do witht he fact they retained the AWD (getrag GTR box?) Or is this a limitation of the Haltech Elite in that it can't control it? Or is this something about the M35 itself and it just likes to be a bastard and the control for the transmission is a rubix cube?!?

So if i am understanding this correctly if i eliminate the auto (yes i have zero reason to spend anymore money on my M35 if i keep the auto) and go manual, which carries it's own issues, then keeping the drive by wire and adding a Halteck Elite will do the job. I'm not relying on the auto to change gears if i convert to manual so who cares if i keep it happy(i keep mine in manual most of the time too now).

Is there any huge benifit to go cable if the car is converted to manual? The Haltech Elite eliminates the need to keep the standard ECU yes? If so it won't matter about keeping it happy with when the car is shifting etc??

Cheers for the input too Josh.

Unless you are going to run an after market electronic dash you will still need the stock ecu in there for that reason as it feeds the information to the standard dash. Unless someone is going to spend the time wiring in all the dash out controls etc.

The problem with the standard throttle is it is delayed giving full open throttle. That is helped by doing the brake cut mod, but there is still delays.

I am not 100% sure on the haltech and so on, but my guess is unless you are going to pay for a massive full re wire of the car and then have them program in the cable throttle to run straight off the haltech that they will still be using the stock ecu to control the electronic throttle.

By going cable throttle as I have done and they recommended it would fix this problem.

Beregron Community Regular

Beregron

Posted
Posted

The bloke from Mercury mentioned that they had to stay with the factory ECU as the customer has decided to stick with the factory auto. So the stock ECU is remaining at present.

Is this throttle delay that the brake cut "helps" coming from the factory ECU? as this will be something that goes alomg with the ECU :)

I will enquire more about the Haltech regarding running the stock dash with tuners who have used them before but at least i have some indication that this will work. The $$$ i will decide later if i want to make the investment but everyone has differing budgets.

I'll look at 350z compatibility too.

scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

350z is a different plug, and the cam actuation is completely different. Only the latest 350z platinum pro revision will allow camshaft adjustment and control the throttle. Personally I think a Haltech elite would be better.

Yes the throttle delay is in the ecu mapping.

My Fcon doesn't have any of these issues, and if Mercury weren't so 'high and mighty' I would have gladly got the old oscilloscope out and told them exactly why it works so well. Until someone reverse engineers what HKS worked out 10+ years ago we are busting out heads against a brick wall and wasting time.

Beregron Community Regular

Beregron

Posted
Posted

So even with a Haltech Elite taking care of the tuning and no factory ecu to deal with it's no good Scotty?

I assume with someone starting from scratch with a Haltech Elite and building a tuning map will work but then saying that you'd need to wire it in which sounds super painful... (not to mention expensive)

Would a F-Con (assuming i can find one and even more painfully get a loom) facilitate a manual swap??

Beregron Community Regular

Beregron

Posted
Posted

Actually cancel that.... the bloke from Mercury reckons they started with a 350 or 370z map and went from there anyway which means perhaps the issues with the dash were a non issue. Also it depends on how much wiring is needed.... I'm not sure if you can tap into the factory stuff or if you need to re-wire the whole thing.

Anyway i still need to fill in gaps with the manual conversion but i'll keep on looking.

Oh and no tuners are licienced for Fcons here and none have the software so that is a lack of options sadly :(

Bronx Mentor

Bronx

Posted
Posted

wow, sounds like a lot of hassle just to get up and running, I am keen on seeing where this goes.

I wired a haltech sprint 500 into my BMW and kept all the factory outputs on the dashboard.

Everything works like it would from stock, speedo, warning lights, revs etc etc.

Only thing that does not work is the ecu controlled OBD1 consult port.

Now this is a totally basic ecu on a much different car, but is the M35 really that electronically controlled??

Besides valve control, drive by wire and auto box?

Does the dashboard get controlled by the ecu?

A majority of cars that I have wired and worked on the dash runs directly off the various sensors in the car, only some things run via ecu like fuel consumption and some check lights.

Im keen to see how this goes

Beregron Community Regular

Beregron

Posted
Posted

I do. ;)

So do many tuners, they just keep it on the DL.

sneaky :P

Geeeze all i want is a manual M35 that will make decent use of the turbo / upgrades i have done... HOW HARD IS THAT!!!! (i know its kinda hard)

Beregron Community Regular

Beregron

Posted
Posted (edited)

Cheers mate. I'll have a chat.

If an F-Con will allow me to go manual RWD i'm thinking this is the best resault i can hope.

*Edit* this is what Leks runs so it must work....

Edited by Beregron

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