Educated Guess At The Final Tune Results

[Hadouken]

so many touchy people in this thread. People need to relax from their internet life

[Mitchee]

Post your graphs for him mitchee.

I've posted them in a few places around here, haha, so im sure he can find them. Cant wait to see how this thing will go with an unrestricted rear side and some Jez wizardry.

[Piggaz]

Mick,

If you want to run twins in their factory format, what does it matter if the single has "custom piping"? Of course it's custom, it's not factory. If you choose to run factory position low mounts you can't hold that against the single setup. That's your choice, unless you pay for custom work.

[XKLABA]

But That's my point, how can that be called a test of twins v single, it should be called what it is, him upgrading from factory mount old tech turbos to custom mount latest tech turbo which is obviously an upgrade

I will say it again cause obviously there are reading issues here, I'm not saying twins are better or singles are better, I'm saying this is not a fair and comparable test of twins v singles

[Piggaz]

So what would be a fair comparison? In your opinion?

I still can't see a factory low mount twin setup cracking 19-20 psi on a 2.6 with shitty 260 poncams at 4000 ish and go on to make 460 kW.

RS's won't do it

-5's won't do it

63 mm GTX's which come on 100 rpm earlier than -5's (on a 2.8) won't do it.

60 mm GTX's MAY do it but I haven't seen a result.

I agree it should have been done between GTX 60's, but do you honestly think they will do their thing so early on a basic 2.6? They struggle to push stock turbos at 4000 (unless you have your cam timing)

[Shoota_77]

I tend to agree, they made out it was going to be a 'like for like' similar flow turbo upgrade then nek minit, boom, bigger, higher flowing turbo.

I'd love to see what twin small gtxs or Borg Warner turbos could do

[Mick_o]

Reality is that comparing a twins vs single setups via a dyno sheet is rubbish only real way you will compare is to drive them both.

Drive them both back to back Then pass judgment.

I tend to agree with Piglet as billet comp wheels really aren't gunna change the game a great deal more.

My experience with GTX vs GT is response didn't improve with the billet wheel it just increased the compressors flow. Which is great if you have a large enough turbine that can actually flow the gases the compressor needs to run the higher pressures these billet wheels desire!

The limitations are always gunna be the piss ant turbine housings on the twins.

Single turbo simply exploits that fact and walks away from them everytime!

Its funny how the twin guys get all cut and say "its not an accurate comparison" old tech vs new tech etc" but Hawkins drove the car and gave his views on how it ACTUALLY drove so how does that make it a shit comparison?

You never drove the same car with 2 different setups to compare so how would you know?

Edited July 23, 2015 by Mick_o

[XKLABA]

GTXs or at least same generation turbos with same flow rates would be a good start, but a genuine fair test of twins v singles would see both setups done the same way with the same level of breathing support, so custom high mount manifolds, custom dump pipes and external gates custom pipe work from filters to turbos then to cooler so the test is same same

That is a test I would like to see, anything with factory mount turbos is going to have limitations which a high mount single won't have to deal with so any test of twins v single needs to be same same or it proves nothing for which ever is truely better, twins or singles

You can't have a fair test of which is better when one side has limitations and the other doesn't

[XKLABA]

The joy of the GTXs or any billet wheel is you can have a smaller wheel for the same flow which increases response while giving same power but that isn't what I'm saying, I'm saying this test isn't mythbusted proof that singles are better then twins

[r32-25t]

You want a fair comparison, grab a 35 Gtr and back to twin vs single on that cause at least on the r35 there has been a bucket load of technology put into the twins on them

Or better yet grab. 997 Porsche turbo and back to back them, cause I will very surprised if a single could out respond the turbos on them

[Piggaz]

But that's the thing.

FACTORY position twins vs a single.

The only twin system out there that's "high" mount is the EFR twins that will run the factory front pipes. Intake is a no go.

Twin high mount 2835's with external gates won't come on early like that on a 2.6 for example.

What's else is there?

Matty from wa went from -5's to an 8374 on a 3.0. Made more grunt everywhere, on 5-700 rpm earlier and fell onto boost in 1/3rd the time according to his motec.

63's according to simon come on 100rpm earlier. Still missing 400 rpm at best.

[Piggaz]

You want a fair comparison, grab a 35 Gtr and back to twin vs single on that cause at least on the r35 there has been a bucket load of technology put into the twins on them

Or better yet grab. 997 Porsche turbo and back to back them, cause I will very surprised if a single could out respond the turbos on them

Different engine config.

How long does the exhaust manifold have to be on an R35 to run a single? How would you route that disaster?

[r32-25t]

Because as mick keeps saying, no one is putting anymore r&d into the twins because the rb26 isn't a current engine and the Americans haven't had them. so they didn't give a shit about them

I don't care which one is better, I'd just like to see a fair comparison which is all mick is asking for

[r32-25t]

Different engine config.

How long does the exhaust manifold have to be on an R35 to run a single? How would you route that disaster?

cant be that hard, they build a vq35s with single turbos factory on them and multiple v8 engines also do it

[Piggaz]

There is RND in twins

There is no difference between GTX 3582R and a GT3582 compared to say a GTX 2860 to a -5.

Same rear turbine, only difference is the front fan in both setups.

I'm 100% certain a -7 would come on earlier than a GTX 60mm but you know yourself it wouldn't get close to 400 kW, let alone 450.

So the smallest aftermarket factory position turbos against a 450 kW single. Matched everywhere, gates are making a nusiense at just over 4000 but go onto make 450 plus on a stock engine.

I don't give a fook, you know what's on my car but I can't see the inaccuracies in this when I couldn't tell you what low mount twins to put on to do 450 plus and be "on" by very early 4K would be on a very basic 2.6.

[XKLABA]

That test doesn't say FACTORY twins v single, it's says twins v single mythbusted and that's my point

[Piggaz]

Opening scene he says "low mount twins vs similar sized single".

So do the twins need to be high mounted to be fair?

[r32-25t]

the gtx2860 comp wheel has a smaller inducer wheel compared to then -5 and Andrews car had -5s with -7 housings so it isn't a comparison between the smallest twin bolt on vs a single at all. The -5 wheels would slow down the the response time just from the extra weight.

I'm sure if we went like for like, so -5s vs gt3582 we might have seen things work out a lot closer to each other, but instead we saw a set of bitsa turn of the century turbos vs a made to work 15 years newer technology turbo

[Nismo 3.2ish]

I've posted them in a few places around here, haha, so im sure he can find them. Cant wait to see how this thing will go with an unrestricted rear side and some Jez wizardry.

Hi Mitch, I did find your dyno results , very impressive

I do not care if my Dyno reads 350KW on 98 pump, this is as much as I can use as I do not need top end, I must admit it would be nice to have both.

Realistically with my cams dialed in for response and the 6262 it limits top end. It will be flex tuned, I can use E85 if I want a bit more..

So I will wait for Jez to do his best with what he has to work with and drive it to see how it feels.

From some info I have read, detonation also affects performance but I am not sure if a "slight detonation" would affect the results ?

As far as singles Vs twins, using new tech turbos for both types would be the only fair test to have. I had Twins on a 350GT Skyline and they were awesome but it was a V6 new age motor compared to the earlier straight 6 Skylines.

[Stixbnr32]

Ah is that why you like your "response" you have been driving VQ motors that are 3.5L TT.

Now the world is becoming clear.

Next stop R35 GTR time?