Q&a: How To Import, Legality.

[Matvei27]

You are an absolute idiot. The car isn't legal. Seriously. Listen to someone who actually imports cars.

I am well aware of what form 97 does. Want to know what it doesn't do? Legalize cars. It never should have been issued for this car. You can only issue it for cars that can be used on public roads. This car cannot. It doesn't comply with any NHTSA or EPA regulations and it isn't exempt either because it wasn't imported when it was 25 years old.

Are you seriously trying to argue with me about a car that was clearly seized and has an EPA judgement out against it?

You can issue as many form 97s as you want, it doesn't change the fact that the car isn't legal in the eyes of the NHTSA or EPA.

The car is supposed to be legal BEFORE it gets a form 97 after being auctioned.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Matvei27

[Matvei27]

Anyway, I don't care. Let your car get seized when you try and sell it or register it in another state. Whatever. I was trying to tell you how to fix your problem. Apparently you don't want to listen.

You won't get very far with this car if you aren't willing to listen to people who have more experience than you. Especially with your engine building.

I'm still waiting for you to show me a de-registration certificate, HS-7, and 3520-1. Every imported car has to have them. No exceptions.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Matvei27

[Matvei27]

It's funny because you were listening at first and then all of a sudden you decided it was too much of a hassle or cost to legalize the car so you decided then to take out your anger towards whomever sold you the car on me instead.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Here's the contact information for some Registered Importers, why don't you ask them?

http://icsw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/graymarket_RI_list120413.pdf

More info:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import

http://icsw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/FAQ%20Site/index.html

This one has the phone number for the DOT and EPA, you can call them too.

http://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/218/~/requirements-for-importing-a-vehicle-%2F-vehicle-parts

Some choice quotes:

Nonconforming vehicles less than 25 years old entering the United States must be brought into compliance, exported, or destroyed.

Vehicles over 25 years old are exempt from EPA and DOT requirements, although you will still need to obtain and prepare EPA and DOT paperwork to provide to a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Officer in order to clear your vehicle through CBP.

It is illegal to bring a car into the U.S. and sell it without first entering it through CBP. If you purchase a vehicle that was brought into the U.S. and sold without being properly entered through CBP, that vehicle is subject to seizure.

If you bought or were given an imported vehicle from someone in the U.S., and they did not clear it through CBP before selling or giving it to you, there could be a problem. It is illegal to sell an imported vehicle that has not been formally entered, and it is subject to seizure.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Matvei27

[HarrisRacing]

You are an absolute idiot. The car isn't legal. Seriously. Listen to someone who actually imports cars.

I am well aware of what form 97 does. Want to know what it doesn't do? Legalize cars. It never should have been issued for this car. You can only issue it for cars that can be used on public roads. This car cannot. It doesn't comply with any NHTSA or EPA regulations and it isn't exempt either because it wasn't imported when it was 25 years old.

Are you seriously trying to argue with me about a car that was clearly seized and has an EPA judgement out against it?

You can issue as many form 97s as you want, it doesn't change the fact that the car isn't legal in the eyes of the NHTSA or EPA.

The car is supposed to be legal BEFORE it gets a form 97 after being auctioned.

Anyway, I don't care. Let your car get seized when you try and sell it or register it in another state. Whatever. I was trying to tell you how to fix your problem. Apparently you don't want to listen.

You won't get very far with this car if you aren't willing to listen to people who have more experience than you. Especially with your engine building.

I'm still waiting for you to show me a de-registration certificate, HS-7, and 3520-1. Every imported car has to have them. No exceptions.

You (and any website you found indicating this) are incorrect. My car is legal. I called today, provided all of my information to "nancy", who informed me of it. My VIN is registered under a 16 digit seizure number and is LEGALIZED under the CBP under form 97. I am here to correct your lack of knowledge.

Forms 3520-1 and HS-7 are both US customs forms for when you import a vehicle. No doubt this is required for legal importation of 25 year old cars.

Cars that are seized by any means including illegal imporation follow different rules...some of which include exceptions:

Example A - they can be sold "for export only" on a 7512 and can ONLY be transported FROM a storage yard (auction site) to an export boat for export within 60 days of sale.

Or in other cases cases the car could have been detained or even used by the government and later issued the RARE Form 97. Form 97 is two things:

1) A sales log of a specific car (VIN number, make, model, etc etc) that is owned by the government to a person for use in commerce and use on public highways - Federal Certificate to Obtain A title (good for ALL 50 states).

and...

2) CBP certification that the car is legal for road useage.

See...the importation process is NORMALLY the method for notifying the CBP of the imporation and legalization of the car. BUT it can also be done by the federal government (super rare) and in these cases "illegally" imported cars are then "legalized" by the government and then sold for use on highways on form 97.

Form 97 is one of the only ways to federally legalize a seized illegally imported car. And ONLY appointed gov't officials can do this (again as described previously in the CFR I posted).

So...cease and desist. You are wrong...you made me think I may have done something wrong...I dug into it, made my pertinent phone calls and am informing all that my findings are that my car is 100% legal and it's NOT 25 years old yet. Don't beleive me? CALL THE FEDS...NOT AND IMPORTER. An importer can only tell you about IMPORTING a car...they aren't authorized to make any other decisions. That's what I did.

I bet the 25 year rollover for 1990 is going to start going away as a flag in your local DMV's soon and if you don't have to deal with emissions certs and CARB to get your legally imported car title i bet you can easily get a title with an HS-7 or 1320-1.

So please stop your childish behavior and name-calling. You have been officially proven wrong and have been spreading misinformation.

Edited April 17, 2015 by HarrisRacing

[HarrisRacing]

Anyway, I don't care. Let your car get seized when you try and sell it or register it in another state. Whatever. I was trying to tell you how to fix your problem. Apparently you don't want to listen.

You won't get very far with this car if you aren't willing to listen to people who have more experience than you. Especially with your engine building.

I'm still waiting for you to show me a de-registration certificate, HS-7, and 3520-1. Every imported car has to have them. No exceptions.

LOL...guess we will see after a few 20 minute sessions on a road course at 650-700HP.

And we are all still waiting on you to tell us, what your company is, where you do your importing at, how many cars you have imported, and if it was done on Forza Motorsports or not.

Edited April 17, 2015 by HarrisRacing

[HarrisRacing]

You are an absolute idiot. The car isn't legal. Seriously. Listen to someone who actually imports cars.

I am well aware of what form 97 does. Want to know what it doesn't do? Legalize cars. It never should have been issued for this car. You can only issue it for cars that can be used on public roads. This car cannot. It doesn't comply with any NHTSA or EPA regulations and it isn't exempt either because it wasn't imported when it was 25 years old.

Are you seriously trying to argue with me about a car that was clearly seized and has an EPA judgement out against it?

You can issue as many form 97s as you want, it doesn't change the fact that the car isn't legal in the eyes of the NHTSA or EPA.

The car is supposed to be legal BEFORE it gets a form 97 after being auctioned.

No sir...ONLY GOVERNMENT APPOINTED OFFICIALS can issue form 97's. Sorry wrong again read the CFR. The form 97 trumps ALL of the documentation you are asking for.

Edited April 17, 2015 by HarrisRacing

[Matvei27]

Nancy who? I already told you the form 97 was not supposed to be issued for this car as it doesn't comply with EPA or NHTSA regulations.

All form 97 does is let the car stay here and let you get a title. It doesn't resolve your outstanding issues with the EPA and NHTSA.

Call the EPA here:

(734) 214-4100

and call DOT/NHTSA here:

(202) 366-5291

then get back to me, OK?

Edited April 17, 2015 by Matvei27

[HarrisRacing]

I just told you this was done. But "don't take my word for it..."

Do it yourself

HINT - you will get two different answers. But both will agree on one thing.

Don't waste any more of my time. Try to help the poor soul that has your cherised docs and NO TITLE. I'm good.

And I guess through all of the heartache you have caused I need to thank you for bringing all of this up so I could be assured my car is legal.

Edited April 17, 2015 by HarrisRacing

[Matvei27]

Who specifically did you call then? The EPA, NHTSA/DOT, CBP, ICE?

Nonconforming vehicles less than 25 years old entering the United States must be brought into compliance, exported, or destroyed.

Is your car magically 25 years old now?

Edited April 17, 2015 by Matvei27

[HarrisRacing]

More, REAL, TRUE, information.

http://web01.dps.louisiana.gov/omv1.nsf/58c968bd569b099986256cdc000806eb/a3520038317614518625667f00589f1c

[Matvei27]

What does any of that have to do with legalizing a car?

You have a state title. The car isn't compliant with NHTSA/DOT and EPA. It can't be, because it isn't 25 years old.

So you have a state-legal car that isn't federally legal. Understand? This is the most common situation people with illegally imported cars find themselves in.

Answer me again: In what year and month was this car originally manufactured?

Nonconforming vehicles less than 25 years old entering the United States must be brought into compliance, exported, or destroyed.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Matvei27

[HarrisRacing]

What does any of that have to do with legalizing a car?

You have a state title. The car isn't compliant with NHTSA/DOT and EPA. It can't be, because it isn't 25 years old.

So you have a state-legal car that isn't federally legal. Understand? This is the most common situation people with illegally imported cars find themselves in.

Answer me again: In what year and month was this car originally manufactured?

EPA doesn't matter ~ 21 years.

As long as the car doesn't DRIVE ON THE ROAD PRIOR to DECEMBER I'm good. NHTSA only applies to cars ON PUBLIC ROADS AND HIGHWAYS. I'm sorry I thought I wrote this above.

Edited April 17, 2015 by HarrisRacing

[Matvei27]

Public roads or not doesn't matter. It isn't a race car and wasn't imported as such (to do so you would have to have a car which was originally manufactured AS a race car, not converted).

Again:

Nonconforming vehicles less than 25 years old entering the United States must be brought into compliance, exported, or destroyed.

And as I explained to you before 21 and 25 years are numbers that apply at the time of import...there is no grandfathering.

So again, what year and month was this car manufactured?

Call the EPA here:

(734) 214-4100

and call DOT/NHTSA here:

(202) 366-5291

Ask them. Seriously.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Matvei27

[HarrisRacing]

GSX-R35 - Best of luck with your title process! Sounds like you are close!

I hope I have my junk together by December!

[Matvei27]

You still haven't answered if the car is 25 years old.

[GSX-R35]

The best thing to do is shop around DMVs. Most of them have no clue what they are doing when it comes to this. You have all the right paperwork. What else are they asking for?

They're asking for either a bill of sale or a bill of lading connecting the Japanese exporter listed on the Export Cert to my importer here in the States. My RI said they've got that on the way to me as we speak so hopefully my ordeal ends next week. Fingers crossed lol.

[GSX-R35]

GSX-R35 - Best of luck with your title process! Sounds like you are close!

I hope I have my junk together by December!

Thanks!

[Matvei27]

Section 101-45.4901-97 - Standard Form 97, The United States Government Certificate to Obtain Title to a Vehicle.

Buyers of motor vehicles will receive a GSA Form 27A, "Purchaser's Receipt and Authority to Release Property," and a Standard Form (SF) 97-1, "The United States Government Certificate To Obtain Title To A Vehicle." SF 97-1 is not a title; it is evidence of title only for authority to obtain title at the Department of Motor Vehicles(DMV) to a vehicle by the purchaser. Buyers of property other than motor vehicles will receive only the GSA Form 27A. Unless otherwise provided in the Invitation, title to the property sold hereunder shall vest in the Purchaser as and when removal is effected.

The Certificate to Obtain Title in no way serves as a waiver for payment of registration fees, nor county or State taxes assessed to the vehicle, subsequent to its purchase. The Certificate to Obtain Title will only be issued after the vehicle is paid for.

The Certificate to Obtain Title that accompanies vehicles may identify the vehicle as Salvage or Scrap, meaning the vehicle is not intended for driving and its condition is poor and/or it is not road-worthy in its present condition.

These provisions may also be applied to certain accident-damaged vehicles. The type of title issued will be determined at the discretion of each state�s Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV).

Any property listed in the sales catalog "For Export Only" may not be entered into the commerce of the United States and must be exported under conditions described in the sales catalog/brochure. A representative sample from large, commercial quantity “Export Only” lots (greater than ten cartons) may be released to the Purchaser upon full payment if the sample is available at the sales center.

All Purchasers are responsible for complying with all applicable federal licensing and permit regulations prior to exportation. The failure of the purchaser to obtain necessary licensing will not result in the return of any monies tendered for the goods.

The Contractor shall provide a copy of the required procedures for export, when available from the Government, to the Purchaser at the time of final payment. Unless a different period for removal is applicable with respect to goods or conveyances that are sold "For Export Only," the purchaser will have 60 days from auction day to remove the property from the United States or purchaser will be deemed in default and the property will be resold by the Government as provided in paragraph 23 of these Terms and Conditions of Sale.

All forms required for exportation may be obtained at a nominal cost from the U.S. Government. Because of the complexity of some export requirements, the purchaser may wish to secure the services of a Customhouse Broker, bonded carrier, or other professional in securing the necessary documents required for exportation. The Contractor will offer no assistance whatsoever.

SALE OF GOVERNMENT PROPERTY GENERAL SALE TERMS AND CONDITIONS

24. REQUIREMENTS TO COMPLY WITH APPLICABLE LAWS AND REGULATIONS:

It is the Purchaser’s responsibility to ascertain and comply with all applicable Federal, State, local, and multi-jurisdictional laws, ordinances and regulations pertaining to the registration, licensing, handling, possession, transportation, transfer, export, processing, manufacture, sale, use, or disposal of the property listed in the sales catalog.

The Purchaser or user of this property is not excused from any violation of such laws or regulations either because the United States is a party to this sale or has had any interest in the property at any time.

Winning bidders, who pay in full, will be notified by VSE Corporation when they can schedule an appointment to pick up their vehicle(s) - It will be AT LEAST A WEEK from the time of payment before the vehicle is ready for pick up. You will have 60 days from the time you are notified the vehicle is ready for pick up to remove the property. Please contact the storage location to confirm a removal appointment.

The title document (SF-97) will be mailed directly to the buyer once it has been signed by the Treasury Department. If the vehicle has not been removed by the deadline, it will be placed in the next available auction and money will not be refunded.Call 888-534-2828 if you have any questions.

Please go to http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/trade/basic_trade/ for detailed export information. Export Documents are the buyer’s responsibility. VSE does not provide Export Documents. Vehicles will only be released to licensed bonded couriers with a completed CBP 7512 form.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Matvei27

[Matvei27]

ITT: people thinking form SF-97 makes their car legal. It doesn't. It's a temporary title document you get when buying a seized car from auction. Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Matvei27

[Matvei27]

By the way, SF-97 will get issued whether the car is export only or not.

Here is a great example of a seized, export only car with a SF-97 that sold at auction:

http://ricklevin.nextlot.com/public/lot/15048858

The BNR32 in question in this thread should not have had a "for domestic sale" SF-97 issued. It should instead have one stamped saying FOR EXPORT ONLY. Why this didn't happen, I don't know.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Matvei27