Q&a: How To Import, Legality.

[HarrisRacing]

Oh boy...read my build thread. We may be going backwards on my build should I need to redo all of this paperwork.

Car wasn't running when I got it. I'd have to install twins? Will a single cut it? Damn...install a cat?

Mega-effing-pita if I decide to go through with this.

Also on the export/import, what exactly would be required? I still feel like I have a case for "this was acquired legally" but you guys have lots of questions I can't answer. Good news is it's never been on the road yet.

[HarrisRacing]

And also. No one has clarified where the form 97 fits in my story or how. What role would this have played? Is it actually the same thing as a federally bonded title? I thought those were different?

[Matvei27]

You don't have a case. It wasn't acquired legally. Trust me. ICE doesn't want to hear your complaints that you thought you were buying a legit car.

Go read up on Kaizo. The original importer was the only one charged with a crime, but everyone else still had their cars seized. Not fun.

You need either the de-reg certificate, a non-bonded (real) title, or both. Export to Canada, then bring it back and import properly. Problem solved.

edit: Regarding form 97, it never should have been issued. They used form 97 to "launder" the car and then get a bonded title.

Strictly technically speaking it might be easier to install a stock RB26 and remove your built engine then reinstall later. At minimum you need to make it "look" relatively stock and definitely you need to put back on a cat. But if you're willing to risk it just forget about the engine...to be honest no one is going to look at it especially at a land border crossing. Install a cat. You'll be fine. It's not the best option, but I don't see what else you can really do.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Matvei27

[HarrisRacing]

Mine, and the one before mine, were both registered Louisiana titles. The picture of the form 97 is a picture the previous owner sent me. He needed that to get the title. He was also once removed from his acquisition from previous owner.

There is no engine in the car currently and has likely not been driven since 2007. Original was trashed (mega rod knock), new one is 100% new parts including block. I have everything but it's not going back together...I would need a complete longblock likely.

I think for some reason ICE would be much more reasonable than requiring import/export. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems like someone should have caught this car and forced exportation LOOOONG ago. And this is all IF my process wasn't legal. I can tell yoh without a doubt everything I have done has been 100% legal.

[Matvei27]

Go read up on Kaizo. ICE doesn't care. They will give you one of two options. Option one is crush it. Option 2 is export immediately within 30 days to a country NOT in North America.

You want to avoid this. So you go to Canada and come back, this time with the correct documents.

You are going to need to put some sort of working engine and emissions equipment on this car to do that, though.

How you want to do that is up to you, but the easiest is to get ahold of a stock RB26 and put it in for now.

So, do you have the de-registration certificate? At least you have a real Louisiana title. That's a start.

Seems to me like all you need to do is put an engine in this car and send it to Canada, then bring it back.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Matvei27

[HarrisRacing]

No dereg...no clue what you are talking about. Purchased on a louisiana title and went to a louisiana title. That's it. Thought I was 100% legal. I really had to dig (per your input) to find out otherwise. And IMO I'm still not liable. The money is on the engine stand anyway!

I'll read up on kaizo

Edited April 16, 2015 by HarrisRacing

[Matvei27]

The de-reg certificate is the document Japan issues when the car is exported. It serves as a title, kind of. It's something you technically should still have if the car was imported legally.

Technically if you are buying an imported JDM car those are the three things you should ask to see, the de-reg certificate, the HS-7, and the 3520-1. You want all 3.

You aren't liable in the sense that you won't be charged for anything since you weren't the importer. But the car can still be seized anyway.

An importer went to jail over a S15 a month or two ago...the car was seized and original importer was charged. They don't care how many down the chain you are in terms of seizing it.

Kaizo...they were a business and sold cars to various people that weren't legally imported...the people at Kaizo were charged and the cars were seized from their various owners, many of whom had no idea that the cars weren't legal.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Matvei27

[HarrisRacing]

Imo, your "should never have issued form 97 and was used to launder the car" comment is speaking your opinion of it and I have not found a single seized example of a car that had this documentation. The very simple fact is that the government issued this documentation at some point, which specifically allows the car to be sold for use on public roads, and tells me it was a legal process whether you agree with (in our speculation) how it was imported.

You keep comparing my car's acquisition to several examples which are CLEARLY linked to intentionally smuggling cars (through various forms) to direct clients. I'm not in this case whatsoever and the other thing you must realize is the intent of persons involved in these cases and the high profile nature of such.

Keep in mind this was not a bonded title. It was a federal certificate to receive a title which IMO (and the DMV manager that I showed the documentation to) trumps any past importation issues (assuming there were any).

So I am sticking to my story but I would appreciate if you would drop the "your car is here illegally" because the honest answer is you do not know how it was imported. All you can logically deduce is that "the process was not typical" in the importing procedure. And likely difficult to replicate.

That, I do think, is the final answer I am staying with.

Edited April 16, 2015 by HarrisRacing

[Matvei27]

You can believe what you want but I assure you 100% the car is not here legally. Seriously. Listen to someone who knows more than you. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just telling you the truth and giving you advice on how to resolve the situation.

If the car was legal it would be 25 years old. If the car was legal you would have a de-registration certificate. If the car was legal you would have a HS-7. If the car was legal you would have a 3520-1.

You don't have any of those things and the car isn't 25 years old. Period. End of story.

The fact that the car isn't 25 years old is evidence enough that it was not imported legally. The rest is irrelevant. It is not currently possible to import any Skyline into the United States that is less than 25 years old. The 1996-1998 R33 is technically eligible for importation by an ICI/RI (registered importer) but there is currently no registered importer who is capable of doing the work. There is technically a model of R34 on the Show&Display list, but the one listed on there doesn't actually exist (seriously) and even if it did, it wouldn't be EPA exempt (21 years) and Show&Display does not exempt from EPA so it is virtually useless.

Please read more regarding the 25 year rule here:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/3198/Vehicle-Importation-Understanding-the-25-Year-Old-Rule.aspx

http://www.importavehicle.info/2011/11/is-my-imported-car-legal.html

http://jalopnik.com/how-an-imported-nissan-silvia-nearly-got-a-man-20-years-1684706334

So, in short, there is no way that a Dec 1990 R32 could have been legally imported into the United States. There are many ways to do it illegally, and only one way to do it legally. And that is to wait until the car is 25 years old down to the month.

You have 8 months to go until the car can be legally imported.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Matvei27

[HarrisRacing]

You can't discount my form 97!

Not a single example of the federal government selling a car to the public for use on public highways and issuing a form 97. Perhaps it was impounded then they wanted some money back so they sold it for use? Either way I DO have supporting documentation of the car being cleared (in some way) by the federal government. Which under no terms states "for export only".

There simply must be exceptions.

In your world of absolutes, where do the motorex cars that are not 25 years old fall?

Edited April 16, 2015 by HarrisRacing

[slowridn73]

If you don't believe matvei27 then just call ICE and ask them to review your paperwork, if it's 100% legal then you have nothing to worry about.

However I think you know what he is saying makes sense, in which case listen to what he is telling you so you can work this out.

[Matvei27]

You can't discount my form 97!

Not a single example of the federal government selling a car to the public for use on public highways and issuing a form 97. Perhaps it was impounded then they wanted some money back so they sold it for use? Either way I DO have supporting documentation of the car being cleared (in some way) by the federal government. Which under no terms states "for export only".

There simply must be exceptions.

In your world of absolutes, where do the motorex cars that are not 25 years old fall?

Motorex was a RI/ICI who imported cars legally, by bringing them into compliance with FMVSS and EPA regulations. As stated above, since Motorex is gone there is no longer anyone who is capable of doing the work even though the 1996-1998 R33 still remains on the approved vehicles list for importation. Motorex has been gone for quite awhile now, but no RI has decided it is worth their time to figure out the work necessary and start doing it.

There are no exceptions that apply to your situation. There are many agencies involved here: NHTSA, EPA, CBP, ICE, FBI, your state DMV, etc.

Your form 97 doesn't make the car legal. It shouldn't have been issued in the first place, you know that because you know the car was supposed to be exported or destroyed yet somehow wasn't. The only forms that make a car legal are the HS-7 and 3520-1, neither of which you have.

The only exception for road cars is if you are a foreign national (i.e. not a US citizen) you may temporarily import a non-conforming vehicle for up to 1 year. You may not sell it to anyone in the US during this time. At the end of the year the vehicle must be exported.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Matvei27

[Matvei27]

Read the links I sent you above. You can even ask Sean Morris (importavehicle.info is his site). He did the compliance work for Motorex back in the day (and also the Fast & Furious cars). Now he runs an import business for 25 year old cars... importavehicle.com

He will tell you the exactly same thing I have.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Matvei27

[HarrisRacing]

Motorex was a RI/ICI who imported cars legally, by bringing them into compliance with FMVSS and EPA regulations. As stated above, since Motorex is gone there is no longer anyone who is capable of doing the work even though the 1996-1998 R33 still remains on the approved vehicles list for importation. Motorex has been gone for quite awhile now, but no RI has decided it is worth their time to figure out the work necessary and start doing it.

There are no exceptions that apply to your situation. There are many agencies involved here: NHTSA, EPA, CBP, ICE, FBI, your state DMV, etc.

Your form 97 doesn't make the car legal. It shouldn't have been issued in the first place, you know that because you know the car was supposed to be exported or destroyed yet somehow wasn't. The only forms that make a car legal are the HS-7 and 3520-1, neither of which you have.

The only exception for road cars is if you are a foreign national (i.e. not a US citizen) you may temporarily import a non-conforming vehicle for up to 1 year. You may not sell it to anyone in the US during this time. At the end of the year the vehicle must be exported.

I am agreeing with you 100% about how to legally import a 25 year old car. BUT I am not able to agree or disagree as to how MY car was imported...hell it may be an old motorex car for all you and I know. I am disagreeing with the enforcement side.

The enforcement side has focused on people who have INTENTIONALLY imported vehicles illegally. Particularly in bulk for profit with exception of one S15 idiot, who did something totally illegal - AND I highly doubt that he received even a fraction of the maximum punishment - AND HE DID SOMETHING ILLEGAL INTENTIONALLY! The big wig lobbyist are trying to shut the importation of cars that DO NOT pass EPA, NHTSA, and CARB compliance down.

I read your examples and found the following:

MOTOREX and KAIZO both imported with intent of doing things illegally and skirting existing law and let me explain all of them...

MOTOREX - Did extensive pushing and at first was able to add the R33 to the list of importable cars, but then started (illegally) badging EVERY GT-R (R32 and R34) as being an R33. HUGE no-no as they did not fall under "similarity" rules. The owners of these cars were sent letters and grandfathered in...DESPITE the fact that they were not 25 years old! So yes...they WERE ilegally imported with INTENT of breaking law and still these cars were made an exception and exist in the states.

KAIZO - Took shells and engines and imported them separately. They "reassembled" the cars into NEW VIN number "kit" cars. This broke all kinds of rules and the judgement states this plainly. The OTHER thing is that even if you get a 25-year-old R32 GTR in California to this day, California (and perhaps other states) requires MORE than the HS-7 and NHTSA documentation...they also require CARB certification - NONE of which these kit cars had because they had engines that were not ever built to meet CARB requirements. IN the kit car world, this is already a hurdle.

In both cases you are seeing again AN IMPORTER (trying to exploit "illegal" cars for money) and VERY CLOSELY HELD CLIENTS who knew that not driving a CARB exempted car was going to get them in trouble. And even then, did the cars get crushed or exported or the guys thrown in prison for 20? Find me a judgement and I'll start believeing the internet horror stories. How did that Paul Walker car stay in the states so long then?

In my opinion, you are taking advice from a person who worked closely with known crooks in the past. And I'm willing to bet that all of these cases are fueled by lobbyist who's job is to create fear of buying "ILLEGAL" cars (not very unlike what you are doing here).

The JUDGEMENT I found online (here) does NOT have my car's VIN number on it. It is one digit off..it REALLY could NOT be my car and technically in a court of law it ISN'T! It just so happens to be in the same state that my car went to auction (according to some web forums) around the same time. It is still PURELY SPECULATION in my mind and as an end user I never would have known whatsoever had some "importer" on the internet started trying to scare me (by posting in my TURBO SELECTION THREAD!). I do not know AT ALL if the car was listed for export, but if you read the judgement and associated fines for doing some "super-illegal importing" you will find that he didn't get 20 and he was in the business of smuggling multiple cars!

I'll tell you what if it SMELLS illegal I ain't doing it! But again, I have a document that says the GOVERNMENT ISSUED THIS CAR FOR USE ON A PUBLIC ROAD FOR A TITLE, the Code of Federal Regulations that backs this up, it was purchased from a licensed dealer, and the DMV approved my transaction. I AM GOOD WITH THAT. You continue to spread your E-FEAR and half-truths and I'll enjoy my GTR or have my day in court if the Feds decide one day they made a mistake. You said it...someone in the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT screwed up with my car (maybe?!), but that doesn't mean what I'm doing is illegal. It really means that I can't import my car until it is 25 years old. That means when they come for it, they REALLY are going to have to explain themselves...OR they could go after the Land Rover guys.

Edited April 16, 2015 by HarrisRacing

[Matvei27]

You are in denial, that's all I am going to say. The fact that you are getting defensive and refusing to listen or learn anything is evidence of that.

Frankly, I don't care if your car is legal or not. But you should. I am doing you a favor by telling you it isn't. What you want to do about it is up to you.

Sean might have worked at Motorex but he quit when they started doing shady stuff.

If it was a Motorex car it would have a Motorex VIN and documents (including a letter from the NHTSA).

Basically, what you are saying is since you are not an "evil" company doing something intentionally the law doesn't apply to you. I'm afraid that's not how it works in the real world.

Your car isn't 25 years old. If it isn't 25 years old it isn't legal. You don't have a de-registration certificate, you don't have a HS-7, and you don't have a 3520-1. So your car isn't legal. But for some reason you are still grasping at straws trying to say this and that...I'm telling you it doesn't matter. CBP didn't process any paperwork relating to this car.

There is no speculation here. Your car isn't legal. For some reason you can't get that through your head. Let it sink in: your car is not here legally.

Go ask anyone else with experience on this. They will tell you the exact same thing.

The JUDGEMENT I found online (here) does NOT have my car's VIN number on it. It is one digit off..it REALLY could NOT be my car and technically in a court of law it ISN'T! It just so happens to be in the same state that my car went to auction (according to some web forums) around the same time.

Yes, one digit off...you really think a BNR32 with a VIN one digit off out of tens of thousands made could've been in a judgement in the same place at the same time...come on man. They made 40,000 of them!

Edited April 16, 2015 by Matvei27

[GSX-R35]

I wish the legalization problems ended with just the Feds. Local DMVs seem to make up their own rules lol. My Nismo has an HS-7, 3520-1, Export Cert, letter from the NHTSA stating it's legal, California bill of sale from the importer, and Arizona DOT are STILL asking for more paperwork to finish up the reg process.

Gotta love government efficiency lol.

[HarrisRacing]

You are in denial, that's all I am going to say. The fact that you are getting defensive and refusing to listen or learn anything is evidence of that.

Frankly, I don't care if your car is legal or not. But you should. I am doing you a favor by telling you it isn't. What you want to do about it is up to you.

Sean might have worked at Motorex but he quit when they started doing shady stuff.

If it was a Motorex car it would have a Motorex VIN and documents (including a letter from the NHTSA).

Basically, what you are saying is since you are not an "evil" company doing something intentionally the law doesn't apply to you. I'm afraid that's not how it works in the real world.

Your car isn't 25 years old. If it isn't 25 years old it isn't legal. You don't have a de-registration certificate, you don't have a HS-7, and you don't have a 3520-1. So your car isn't legal. But for some reason you are still grasping at straws trying to say this and that...I'm telling you it doesn't matter. CBP didn't process any paperwork relating to this car.

There is no speculation here. Your car isn't legal. For some reason you can't get that through your head. Let it sink in: your car is not here legally.

Go ask anyone else with experience on this. They will tell you the exact same thing.

Yes, one digit off...you really think a BNR32 with a VIN one digit off out of tens of thousands made could've been in a judgement in the same place at the same time...come on man. They made 40,000 of them!

coup de grâce

(ko͞o′ də gräs′)

n. pl. coups de grâce (ko͞o′)

1. A deathblow delivered to end the misery of a mortally wounded victim.

2. A finishing stroke or decisive event.

*************

I made contact with the federal auction holder and they pulled my records based on my Form 97 information.

The form 97 is all I needed. It is the CBP clearing and contains the information on it, so my car is completely legal for road use and resale in the US. I should have noticed that the CPB Date and Number was HOLE PUNCHED INTO THE RAISED LETTER SERIALIZED DOCUMENT. You are...in fact, wrong and I am absoutely DONE hearing you spread your internet misinformation. I hope this adds to your EXTENSIVE KNOWLEDGE that there are exceptions to the importation process.

Here is a pictured of my redacted form...I hope it makes your day because it makes mine!

Patrick

Edited April 16, 2015 by HarrisRacing

[Matvei27]

I wish the legalization problems ended with just the Feds. Local DMVs seem to make up their own rules lol. My Nismo has an HS-7, 3520-1, Export Cert, letter from the NHTSA stating it's legal, California bill of sale from the importer, and Arizona DOT are STILL asking for more paperwork to finish up the reg process.

Gotta love government efficiency lol.

The best thing to do is shop around DMVs. Most of them have no clue what they are doing when it comes to this. You have all the right paperwork. What else are they asking for?

Edited April 17, 2015 by Matvei27

[Matvei27]

coup de grâce

(ko͞o′ də gräs′)

n. pl. coups de grâce (ko͞o′)

1. A deathblow delivered to end the misery of a mortally wounded victim.

2. A finishing stroke or decisive event.

*************

I made contact with the federal auction holder and they pulled my records based on my Form 97 information.

The form 97 is all I needed. It is the CBP clearing and contains the information on it, so my car is completely legal for road use and resale in the US. I should have noticed that the CPB Date and Number was HOLE PUNCHED INTO THE RAISED LETTER SERIALIZED DOCUMENT. You are...in fact, wrong and I am absoutely DONE hearing you spread your internet misinformation. I hope this adds to your EXTENSIVE KNOWLEDGE that there are exceptions to the importation process.

Here is a pictured of my redacted form...I hope it makes your day because it makes mine!

Patrick

You still don't learn anything do you. There are no exceptions to the import process. Go read form HS-7 and 3520-1 very carefully.

The form you have means nothing other than that the vehicle was seized and is now government property. After that it should have been either exported or destroyed. The CBP reference is referring to when the vehicle was initially brought into the United States (illegally). It is not a document that legalizes the car. Where on the form does it say anything about that?

I am going to ask you again:

Why is the car not 25 years old?

Why do you not have the de-registration certificate?

Why do you not have a HS-7?

Why do you not have a 3520-1?

Why was this vehicle seized?

Why is there an EPA judgement out against this car (typo aside)?

All imported motor vehicles, whether 25 years old or less than 25 years old (and eligible for importation) need to have this paperwork. So where is it?

If the vehicle was imported properly it never would've been seized and auctioned off in the first place.

The only one here spreading misinformation is you. Why are you so stubborn? I gave you a simple solution: ship the car to Canada and back again.

You need to take your anger out on the people who sold you the car, not me. I have nothing to gain from telling you that your car isn't legal. All I am trying to do here is educate you.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Matvei27

[HarrisRacing]

You still don't learn anything do you. There are no exceptions to the import process. Go read form HS-7 and 3520-1 very carefully.

The form you have says nothing other than that the vehicle was seized and is now government property. After that it should have been either exported or destroyed.

I am going to ask you again:

Why do you not have the de-registration certificate?

Why do you not have a HS-7?

Why do you not have a 3520-1?

Why was this vehicle seized?

Why is there an EPA judgement out against this car (typo aside)?

All imported motor vehicles, whether 25 years old or less than 25 years old (and eligible for importation) need to have this paperwork. So where is it?

If the vehicle was imported properly it never would've been seized and auctioned off in the first place.

The only one here spreading misinformation is you.

You are sounding like a broken record and that broken record is a song of pure ignorance.

I have made the appropriate phone calls, have the appropriate documentation, etc. You have provided no credentials to who you are, current US regulations, nor have you even acknowledged the power of the Form 97 and from the sounds of it...haven't even read it. Do you even live in the US? Have you ever imported a car?

Read some articles on Jalopnik, added some links to people who do this for a living? come on man. Give some real credentials.

Read the copy of the form 97. You have drastically misinterpreted what it says -- It quite plainly states that the car is transferred for commerce in the US and then read the CFR that I posted regarding the form 97 where it states SOLD FOR USE ON PUBLIC HIGHWAYS.

THEN...call ICE, CBP, FBI or whoever you want and ask them about this form and what it does for legal ownership. My car is serialized AND REGISTERED with the CPB as that is what the form 97 has done and I HAVE CONFIRMED THIS (CLEARLY HOLE PUNCHED WITH CPB CERT - how are you denying this?!).

Cars auctioned on EXPORT ONLY are issued form 7512 and will ship STRAIGHT from the auction storage to the port of shipping. Under this process, the cars are NOT to be sold in the US for commerce and anyone removing one is considered SMUGGLING. Again, I shouldn't have to tell you this...you should know it already since you are an expert.

Be careful what you read on the internet or get a law degree and charge for your advice. I am simply done teaching class on this now. Your fear tactics and misinformation are in attempt to hurt the resale of these cars in the USA (or out of sheer jealousy) and that is clear to me now. I have NO AGENDA for spreading rumors and have followed the letter of the law as it applies to my car...It is not my job to make you understand that.

Patrick

Edited April 17, 2015 by HarrisRacing