The Future Of E85 In Australia (not Looking Good)

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Looks like even Australia's iconic car name is dropping E85, and with Caltex scaling back E85 what hope do we have of E85 prevailing in Australia?

Looks like I might have to go back to 98RON... even the price of E85 at United is ludicrous... for every 100km it would be cheaper to run 98RON.

On average I do about 19L per 100km on E85 & 12L per 100km on 98RON

Cost wise E85 is $1.25 per L and 98RON is about $1.55 per L

Which works out:

E85 $24.51 per 100KM

P98 $18.60 per 100KM

Considering ethanol is cheaper to make (however less demand means it cost more to transport). In the past it was about the same to run E85 compared to P98, now it's more expensive.. what about when there's even less demand?

Have a read here:

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/holden-drops-e85-from-commodore-20150415-1mlhax.html

Excerpt:

Caltex was a major partner in the move to engineer Commodores for E85, agreeing to distribute the fuel at selected service stations.

However Caltex has begun winding back the stores that offer it due to a lack of demand.

"We have recently agreed to remove Bio E-Flex (E85) from the six Adelaide sites due to the transport costs incurred supplying the state from NSW (there is no local ethanol supply in South Australia)" said Caltex spokesman Sam Collyer. "The product is also being removed from one site in Sydney. We continue to review our plans for the ongoing sale of Bio E-Flex through our remaining 30 locations."

[scotty nm35]

We have known Caltex were ditching e85 for a year or more. They were under contract to supply e85 to support the Commodore, now Holden obviously don't support the fuel anymore, it was never anything more than a green push from GM anyway.

United seem more than willing to not only give us a better product, but to invest in ethanol plants. They are in it for the long term, hence the price hike. If they can't make a profit out of it, they would likely back out too, so I have no issue with the price they are asking lately. If you can find a better race fuel for the price let me know.

I am getting 300ks to 40L in the evo, much better than the 400ks to 80L in the Stagea. I suspect it's due to the higher compression, new engine build and being a smaller lighter car, but the tune obviously plays a large part. Most cars running ethanol are pushing decent power so it's hard to compare to stock fuel economy figures.

Perhaps octane on demand is going to be the future of e85, all our cars will run fine on 91 while cruising, the higher octane is only required under boost, so a secondary e85 fuel system would work great alongside the stock injectors running petrol.

[nick_7g]

The inputs to E85 (corn -24% over last 12 months) did not drop as dramatically as the cost of inputs to petrol (oil -50% over last 12 months)

Even though the oil and petrol prices are up, United have not reinstated the discount to regular unleaded which was in place when I switched to E85.

The discount has gone from 20c to 16 to 8 to 4 to 0 now! Still cheaper than premium, but less than previously.

United appear to be taking the piss.

That said - still happy to run E85 coz the car loves it and its not a daily.

[breaker1845]

Doesn't look too good for the future in Australia if you want E85 you'll have to buy it from barrels instead of at the pump with more stations closing down shortly.

E85 fuel is environmentally friendly compared to straight octane fuel and uses renewable resources. To me that would be something to consider using in most vehicles, commercial and performance from factory instead of the traditional unleaded fuels. Increasing the demand from all consumers, not just the racing industry would then lower the price at the pump and stations would be selling the fuel more regularly and be able to supply at the majority of locations around Australia.

There is a shift to electric vehicles happening quite rapidly also at the moment as technology improves they will become more popular. Hybrids involving batteries, storage systems and fuel are also emerging.

Unleaded fuel is a good compromise now but I believe there should be more R & D in regards to clean and renewable fuel sources to use commercially. Not just E85 but other methods that require more development to be considered safe for general use in the motor vehicle industry. People love a clean, green environment at no or minimal extra cost that provides the same result.

I see heaps of potential for the oil and resource industry with regards to renewable fuel sources but the limiting factor here is money as always. People don't want to fund projects or ideas unless there is a significant outcome.

[GTR-N1]

Might have to get the "Greens" onside as much as I *cough them

[scotty nm35]

Unfortunately e85 isn't that green due to outdated manufacturing methods. If solar stills were designed local to major cities i am sure the environmental costs could be massively reduced. Only the government could get that off the ground, but the lack of ethanol support has guaranteed ethanol's failure to become a mainstream option.

[GTR-N1]

Any support from Whincup and co?

[AngryRB]

Johnnilicte- I agree you should definitely switch back to 98, that's a rip off!! My beast needs that E85 like a drug addict so ill take your share .....lol

Edited April 16, 2015 by AngryRB

[GTRPSI]

Hmm, time to take the quench pads off my combustion chambers......

[breaker1845]

Unfortunately e85 isn't that green due to outdated manufacturing methods. If solar stills were designed local to major cities i am sure the environmental costs could be massively reduced. Only the government could get that off the ground, but the lack of ethanol support has guaranteed ethanol's failure to become a mainstream option.

Yeah it's something where a blind eye is turned unfortunately. If funds were allocated I'm sure it could be improved amongst other technologies out there.

[ARTZ]

Who cares, how much you use,and how much it costs..If it makes more power, which it does in pretty much 100% of boosted engines, its a win...

Edited April 16, 2015 by ARTZ

[Piggaz]

That said - still happy to run E85 coz the car loves it and its not a daily.

This! Who cares how much it is, if you're worried about fuel consumption with a drunk RB for daily duties, you really need to think about it and look at buying a small daily.

United might be taking the piss a bit with their 107 "race blend"... Meh.

Put an ethanol sensor and a half decent ecu in the car. Run the car on 98 and when you want to be a clown/trackday fill it up with ethanol. It really isn't that hard.

[Kinkstaah]

Until it becomes harder when it's not sold at a local pump

[nick_7g]

United is pretty committed via V8 Supercars, right? At least until 2017.

[Ben C34]

They are now effectively selling a race fuel at the pump. Which isn't what their initial expectations would have been.

The only reason caltex did it was due to the partnership with Holden, and the perception that it is a green fuel.

No one in their right mind would run it for the green reasons, as found out by no one actually really using it in Holdens, as demonstrated by holden dropping the flex capability.

I'm sure united won't continue for long with e85. Which is a shame.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

This! Who cares how much it is, if you're worried about fuel consumption with a drunk RB for daily duties, you really need to think about it and look at buying a small daily.

United might be taking the piss a bit with their 107 "race blend"... Meh.

Put an ethanol sensor and a half decent ecu in the car. Run the car on 98 and when you want to be a clown/trackday fill it up with ethanol. It really isn't that hard.

Just bought a flex sensor and doing exactly that, spent last night scaling my map for 98 (as I don't have one) and did a basic map compare between 98 & E85 to add in the timing advance points.

But what I was saying more so, that in future there might not be any E85 at pumps... that's when we are really stuffed, buying E85 in drums and storing it for prolong periods is not ideal. You'll end up with a tank of diluted vodka instead fit for some rednecks to drink.

[Piggaz]

It shouldn't last that long

Having said that, I've stored E85 in just jerries for 12 months (while he engine was getting built), whacked it in the car and tuned on it. No issues at all!

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

well I guess if it's air tight and it's filled to the brim then it should be fine, but saying that how economical would it be to get drums delivered to your house compared to going to the petrol station for $1.30 per Litre?

I'm just a little sad that there's been a push for greener & renewable energy sources but the government goes and cuts ethanol grants taking effect July 2015. Abbott's party probably will spend that money on anti abortion campaigns and funding for his daughter's career.

[Piggaz]

well I guess if it's air tight and it's filled to the brim then it should be fine, but saying that how economical would it be to get drums delivered to your house compared to going to the petrol station for $1.30 per Litre?

.

I suppose it comes down to how often you drive the car and what level your car is at/setup.

It would be a crying shame for ethanol based fuels to be no longer. Get out there and buy some

[luke gtr]

What are 205 drums worth?

Never looked into it.

But, thought about drums as opposed to pump due to pump being 30mins each way.