Racepace Tein Vs Others

[BunsenBurna]

Thread revival - can you guys please give me a ball park cost for a racepace or MCA package (or other) for an R32 GTR?

And how come no one talks about Bilsteins?!

Cheers

Scott

[GTSBoy]

And how come no one talks about Bilsteins?!

Really? Why not search. Hint. Look for references to SydneyKid kits.

[djr81]

Thread revival - can you guys please give me a ball park cost for a racepace or MCA package (or other) for an R32 GTR?

And how come no one talks about Bilsteins?!

Cheers

Scott

Ballpark MCA is $1500.

Depending on what you want the Bilstein price is all over the shop. You can start by pricing up the dampers which are most of the price. Then pick your springs and go from there with other hardware. Just be careful to ensure you include all the requisite bits to get the job done properly.

So:

Damper.

Spring.

Top plate (If you want Eibach springs which I would recommend using in 65mm id)

The height adjuster thread and nut(s).

Also note the front damper come in two lengths, so work how how low you want because moar low and the longer damper with the standard top mounts is a shit combination.

Tein. NFI, sorry.

[scotty nm35]

Racepace is just a refurbished old Tein rebuilt by Shockworks isn't it? Why not just get Shockworks then? I was quoted $1600 odd for them.

MCA blue is $1500, but there are many more models above the base one.

I don't think Bilstein's compare to either of those coilover setups personally, but you may find it easier to pass a roadside inspection...

[djr81]

Well I am not a big fan of the teins so each to their own. The Bilsteins are good and accomodate a good range of springs just not the sort of silly high numbers people chuck about. If you want to run them with hard springs they need re shimming, which can be done.

Nothing wrong with non adjustable dampers. Far better than cheap adjustable types - not that the other two offerings are necessarily that.

To my mind there are two important points for a 32R:

Make sure you have enough front travel - both spring and damper. One offering talked up by alot of people on here falls short in this area. For example an 8" long 5kg/mm spring only has about 43mm of travel left once installed. Not enough for my book but if you lower the car too much you dont even have that in damper travel with stock strut tops.

High spring rates are recommended by alot of people because they compensate for too little camber and too little anti roll. Fix these things and you can run softer springs and generally have more win.

Edited July 1, 2015 by djr81

[fatz]

Racepace is just a refurbished old Tein rebuilt by Shockworks isn't it? Why not just get Shockworks then? I was quoted $1600 odd for them.

...

I hope not I removed new shock works and the Rp were 4 seconds a lap quicker

Same car same power same everything

[scotty nm35]

I hope not I removed new shock works and the Rp were 4 seconds a lap quicker

Same car same power same everything

Probably misinformation anyway.

I managed 6 seconds going from evo bilsteins to MCA reds, and I was running 8lb less boost. No doubt the Bilsteins were well past their prime though, so it's not an accurate comparison..

[djr81]

I hope not I removed new shock works and the Rp were 4 seconds a lap quicker

Same car same power same everything

Probably misinformation anyway.

I managed 6 seconds going from evo bilsteins to MCA reds, and I was running 8lb less boost. No doubt the Bilsteins were well past their prime though, so it's not an accurate comparison..

With all due respect and all that, wtf? How can you possibly get such a gain out of a shock without the replaced parts being utterly and irretrievably fkd? if I find a tenth of a second in a minute lap I am happy with the gain. You just don't bolt one component on and go so much quicker without something being massively wrong in the first place.

[fatz]

pretty simple

buy car with shockworks ( thrash car) record time

upgraded to HSD's ( thrash car) record time

upgrade to RP tein ( thrash car) record time

i typically use this technique for all mods, saves me reading this thread and developing internet oppinions

even better is pic your favorite twisty bit with large ripples and drive it cutting the kerbs so which shock feels better

i would show the data logs of mid corner speed but i only upgrade to a logger after i put the flash suspension in

mind you after readying all this shit once these wear out ill try some mca gold

[niZmO_Man]

Pete, real world testing < Internet theory posts.

With all due respect and all that, wtf? How can you possibly get such a gain out of a shock without the replaced parts being utterly and irretrievably fkd? if I find a tenth of a second in a minute lap I am happy with the gain. You just don't bolt one component on and go so much quicker without something being massively wrong in the first place.

Pretty easy: off the shelf "coilovers" will always be inferior to properly set up/tuned dampers (with appropriate springs). I believe that's what the Racepace TEINs are (customised for your car).

RE: the Evo, the damper rates and higher spring rates will contribute to the faster track time. Standard Evo Billies are a compromise street setup. MCA red would be more track focused.

A mate changed his Evo's suspension to MCA blue. I've driven before and after (on the street only) and can immediately feel the difference.

[djr81]

Pete, real world testing < Internet theory posts.

Pretty easy: off the shelf "coilovers" will always be inferior to properly set up/tuned dampers (with appropriate springs). I believe that's what the Racepace TEINs are (customised for your car).

RE: the Evo, the damper rates and higher spring rates will contribute to the faster track time. Standard Evo Billies are a compromise street setup. MCA red would be more track focused.

A mate changed his Evo's suspension to MCA blue. I've driven before and after (on the street only) and can immediately feel the difference.

Don't doubt that but my real world testing puts shock gains in the order of tenths of a second rather than seconds per lap is all. Feeling the difference and going seconds per lap faster are different things. I don't have fancy suspension travel logging either unfortunately.

After reading all this shit I may enquire after the golds too.

[scotty nm35]

After reading all this shit I may enquire after the golds too.

I was going to buy the golds, but I was advised the reds are just as good. Golds are more for custom installs apparently, where they don't make reds to suit. Both have similar valving just with no external reservoir on the reds, and both are track focused, not nice to hit potholes with on road.

The PB times were at PI where laps are closer to two minutes, not one like Wakefield etc.

[Roy]

My 2c...mid level quality shocks will all be about the same quality and performance if they are built right for the car.

My Bilsteins were ok but when the car got too quick for them the Bilstein people i spoke to all kinda/think/maybe if we just freshen them up as the valving is very good for a range if springs etc.

SK did a great job with various cars that he built setups for and that experience and wealth of knowledge made many good Bilstein setups.

But the std Whiteline Bilsteins built around the same shock really struggled in my car when the pace started picking up

I wasnt confident that the result would be what i want as the local Bilstein guys were far more well versed in historic cars or race cars...not my club Skyline that was a rwd R32 at that

RPM on the other hand were local and as Fatz points out...comfortable on street and for me i could genuinely attribute about a 1.2sec inprovement at PI on the same set of tyres...lol just more worn old RE55s. Car so much more stable so more time was in it as i could then start to think about pushing harder

So if someone can get the same damping and spring combo out of a Bilstein, Koni MCA etc then it will be a good thing.

I recall Snowman on here went from RPM built Teins to full house MCAs and the car was worse but after some tuning and tweaking the thing was equally epic...winning Targa in his 34.

What the net gain was going to full house MCAs after purchase, rebuilding and development was over the Teins????

I know Ben Manion in his R32 GTSt running Penske probably leave my RPM Teins for dead but for the money RPM charge they are brilliant arrive, drive, perform option. If you can happily tell the shop what needs to be done to improve the performance then there are other options...but i cant say if it needs more spring vs more damping or less rebound etc.If i was as clever as Ben with my bum connected to my brain and my mouth and could wwork with Penske dealer to refine the setup then i would love to...lol but i dont

So happy with what i have and i suspect the free valving change MCA offer in some way proves that they supply many chassis, car combinations and their std offerings may be improved over what they offer std.

RPM seem perfect for up to 450awkw GTRs running semis with std or only marginally improved aero

And 6 seconds...even at PI? Odd...surely more to the story....you must have had a blown right front shock from a GSR Sigma since std shock EVO 9 on semis and tune with exhaust did easy 1.55s. No way imo that car is doing 49s with different shocks!!!

[niZmO_Man]

Tyres also play a part in lap times. Also wheel alignment .

Aren't Penske dampers like $3k a set?

[Roy]

I think you will find that Bens are more like $1000 a corner and then you need strut tops and springs.

Koni are wjat i am doing next. Though i just grabbed my second pair of RPM Teins as i now run GTR fork type shock mount

For the record this is Bilsteins with brand new (scrubbed) RE55s

Vs RPM Tein RA with AO50s off a friends EVO that had just won Targa Tas early modern (ie very worn but a

still sticky tyres)

So different shock and tyre but engine, arms, turbo etc all the same. The RA setup has an extra half point of camber on the front

[BunsenBurna]

Thanks for the resurrected discussion guys. I'm torn between spending $2-3k (fitted) for a half decent setup or save the pennies for a full on setup later on.

[GTR_JOEY]

The teins will cost you around 2k to modify plus what ever springs they put in them, plus the cost of the actual coilovers themselves

[djr81]

I think you will find that Bens are more like $1000 a corner and then you need strut tops and springs.

Koni are wjat i am doing next. Though i just grabbed my second pair of RPM Teins as i now run GTR fork type shock mount

For the record this is Bilsteins with brand new (scrubbed) RE55s

Vs RPM Tein RA with AO50s off a friends EVO that had just won Targa Tas early modern (ie very worn but a

still sticky tyres)

So different shock and tyre but engine, arms, turbo etc all the same. The RA setup has an extra half point of camber on the front

Rate the Yokies massively better than the RE55's.

Out of interest what changes to the spring rates were made?

Damping looks a lot better second time around.

[Roy]

Yeh the AO50s that were near bald blew me away. Worn AO50s IMO comfortably better than NEW RE55s!

I went about 2k heavier in front and rear...i suspect the Teins run less bump and rebound vs Bilsteins which seem quite firm even with softer springs

[djr81]

Well for what it is worth I reckon the middle of the Bilstein range of springs (If that makes sense) is about the 5-6kg/mm mark front and rear. The Whiteline and equivalent spring rate is down around 3ish so the damper is a little over done in that setup.

When I asked about the Bilstein damping rates from Bilstein they wanted to steer me in the direction of harder springs still. But without knowing the rest of the setup - mostly camber - it is hard to know whether they are on the money or not as harder springs compensate for less camber.

Just wish I could get a decent anti roll bar - ie hollow and adjustable. They don't exist, however.