How To Tune Safc Neo? Running A Little Rich.

[ReeceGTS-T]

hey guys, after some basic information about adding air or reducing fuel from my mixture with my SAFC. (whatever works best)

the previous owner had it installed and as far as i know it hasn't been tuned with it probably for just cosmetic looks, since then i pulled it from the dash and hid it under my seat as i find it a bit of an eye sore with it's pathetic pixelated screen (big fan of apexi though).

the car drove fine and all that but recently i made up a stainless steel blanking plate for BOV and inserted it where the gasket goes and kept the bov all plumbed up (just so looks original and untouched and possibly neater than pluming up hoses and such. it has no problem ideling and driving it is really nice.

once i give it a good boot full it is leaving alot of unburnt fuel in my exhaust andnobvoiusly leading to backfire. backfire is quiet normal but this is almost uncomftable so ive gathered its running rich as its getting different signals from afm since blanking plate (only problem with the plate)

so theres me story i am just wondering yeah how to basicly tune it doing it slowly with trail and error. i have no wideband sensor but i am thinking it only needs a tiny adjustment.

thanks for rreadig.

[Scott Black]

If you don't have a wideband then you have no way of knowing how much of an adjustment you need and are just wasting time

[ReeceGTS-T]

thanks for the input, i gathered as much but i was thinking if i did little by little untill the obnoxious backfire went away it might be alright? its not like i wanna do piston melting changes. .....

[GTSBoy]

Removing the blanking plate would be easier.

[ReeceGTS-T]

well if i knew how to fix my settings techniqually adjusting the fuel a bit would be easier lol. few buttons pressed.

[Ben C34]

Lean it off untill the engine pings itself to death.

Replace engine.

Then richen it up a bit.

[hardsteppa]

You need a wideband gauge for sure to tune it. Post up all the settings it cuurently has and i might be able to give some advice, have just finished tuning an safc neo on rb25 here.

[Trex]

Yep post setting.

Need a wideband.

Dec air and settings won't help with having no bov.

[Trex]

What are your setting steppa? From what I've seen in the Stagea section around '06-'08 everyone's were very different for similar boost levels.

[ReeceGTS-T]

okay wide band it is. ive read that a small drill on hole in the plate my fix my problem might try this first as a plate to make up is 5 mins to do.

[hardsteppa]

actually, just re-read your post and have to say, wtf. Why would you want to blank off the bov, and then if you're going to drill a hole in the plate you made so that air goes thru again, why not just remove the plate?? especially as you say the car was running fine before you fitted this. And if you really want to keep it, you don't need a wideband as you don't want to mess with the tune settings; read up on the decel.air function, that's what you need to set up properly.

Stagea97, I had trouble finding anyone's safc settings. Most ppl just post something like 'oh but their tune won't match yours' and no-one ends up posting anything. I mean of course the tunes would be different, but for comparison's sake it would be handy to see them. For mine, from memory only added 1-2% in the 3600-4400 rpm range under low throttle as it leaned out a fraction when hitting boost there, and on hi took out 7% to about 3800, then 5% tapering down to 0 at 5800, where it goes to 11.5 without any adjustment needed. Now have 11-11.8 afr across rpm range under boost, will note down full settings and post up shortly.

[Trex]

I'll do the same this Arvo. Search for 'safc and sitc setting Stagea' in Google and you should see a few threads with different settings.

Apexi have a sheet that had setting at 7psi too

[Trex]

http://www.skylineowners.com/forum/21-tuning-technical-questions/97632-apexi-safc-safc-ii-base-settings-r33-r34.html#/forumsite/21227/topics/97632

This has the 25 and 25 neo sheet.

[STATUS]

Just remember with SAFC that pulling fuel automatically ADDS timing so make sure you know what your doing.

[hardsteppa]

So Trent you no doubt know R33 ignition maps like the back of your hand, I am sure you've seen tons. So would appreciate your input - when taking fuel out, by my understanding all that happens is the ecu sees less load by way of a lower voltage afm signal, effectively dropping it down to the next load band (dependent on how much fuel you take out of course) while still keeping it in the same rpm band. So, dropping 7% means it goes from 100% load under full throttle to 93% load, effectively dropping from the top over-rich/retarded load band to the next load band down, or maybe 2nd down. I haven't seen that there is a massive change in timing in the upper bands of the ignition map until you get a few bands further down. I've yet to find a copy of the stock ecu ignition map but from the maps I have seen, this would mean maybe it adds 1-2 degrees timing max by dropping down 1 or 2 load bands - would you say as an average, that is correct?

[Scott Black]

Moving fuel closer to 12.5:1 will have the combustion even happen faster as the fastest brun occurs around 12.5:1, therefor having the same effect as increased ignition timing. Yet also just adding a couple of degrees from load manipulation can be enough for serious issues

[GTSBoy]

hardsteppa is kinda right but also kinda not quite right either. I have to work on the assumption that the plain old RB25 maps look similar to Neo maps, because Neo is what I have access to, and plain old 25 maps I don't.

The Neo's max TP on the fuel map is 160, but the timing map goes all the way out to 208. What this means is that, at least for a stock engine, Nissan were not expecting the ECU to ever have a higher TP than about 160. If the boost is wound up, the whole top right corner of the map is already pretty rich and the ECU will just use the last column's values for any higher TP calculated.

The ignition map is quite different though. The timing at TP 160 is around 20 degrees in the peak torque revs (~4500) and rises to 27 at max revs. At the next lower TP column (144) it's the same. At the next lower (128) it's ~5 degrees higher. But that column is 20% less load than 160, so it's a brave man that would be twisting the knobs on an SAFC to get it down that far.

What's interesting is the timing values for higher TPs. At the next higher (176) it's still the same as for 160. Nissan were obviously willing to let people have a little fun on cold days. But the next and last columns (192 and 208) are full on hell and brimstone R&R. The timing falls to half and then half again - only about 3 degrees at 4800!

If the plain 25 maps are significantly different to that lot then all bets are off. But seeing as the R&R behaviour of both 25s seems similar, I'd guess the mapping is quite similar. On that basis I reckon you could safely wind out 7% load in the region near the top of original load range (say, 10-20% more TP than the original nominal max of 160) without adding any real timing at all, and it would therefore likely be pretty safe. I wouldn't use an SAFC to go any further than that. And that's really only about 11 psi of boost territory.

[hardsteppa]

hardsteppa is kinda right but also kinda not quite right either

lol, story of my life right there ..anyway, safc neo settings

lo throttle - 42%. Hi 50%

I now have zero adjustment on low throttle, hi thr rpm point settings are

1050 rpm -6

2200 -7

2800 -7

3200 -7

3500 -7

3800 -7

4100 -5

4500 -5

4800 -6

5100 -5

5500 -3

5800 0

6200 0

6600 0

7000 0

7500 0

Playing around with the safc it's limitations become so apparent, but, I stand by it being suitable for making minor adjustments. If there was a 3rd throttle setting between the hi and low it would make it a lot more usable, as I found using low settings ended up having some sort of unwanted trade-off, hence the low settings ending up being set back to zero. Main thing is I no longer hit r&r in the midrange; achieving 11.5 average afr in that range hasn't made heaps more power but it does stop the annoying cut and picks up *some* power, will be interesting to see on the dyno if I ever get the car there.

[ReeceGTS-T]

blanked it off simply to get some turbo flutter happening, i like it better and f**k my stock turbo it's getting traded out soon anyway but i do worry about running correct afr's so i have been doing minimul driving since the plate until i find out some more info.

the drilling the hole into the plate is like the difference of a pin prick and a 20 cent piece.... like trying to run with a straw in your mouth, it gives it some air back but enough to be still blanked and flutter away like a pretty vl. thanks fornrobbing my thred atleast your sort of on topic though.

[hardsteppa]

That's ok, no need to thank me, your thread is now usable information to people, rather than....well, you know.