Back To Back Testing Of P98 Vs P98+water Injection Vs P98 Vs Water Meth Injection

[luke gtr]

This may be the solution I was looking for.

I'm Sydney, but the closest e85 is at least an hour round trip.

was thinking of buying in barrels.

but, these results, although not as good, are definitely better than straight 98.

will look into it further once the car is running.

[tridentt150v]

IMO, you will feel tangible difference on the street with a constant pressure pump (if that's what you were alluding to). Being able to control your atomisation precisely at low rpm/throttle position means I can increase my mass flow through the engine earlier without the risk of damage from poor atomisation. Creating more mass flow has the added effect of building boost earlier in the rev range.

You also want the best atomisation possible for pre turbo injection to limit any potential compressor wear over time if you are an aggressive user.

I'd like to see the back to backs that would prove this......I doubt it TBH. Because your WMI only comes on after 8psi/40% [or whatever your threshold is] and you are already boosting and 'on your way'. WMI phases in and helps after this point.

[JGB1600]

The WI system Im using has 3 factory set fail safes and 1 aux failsafe input. The factory failsafes are:

level sensor in tank

water high (detects leak between the injection solenoid and the nozzles)

water low (detects leak between the tank and the injection solenoid)

The aux failsafe allows the use the input a signal such air temp of o2 to trigger the failsafe.

Once the failsafe is triggered, the user receives two visual indications via the dash mounted gauge. In conjunction, the control unit outputs a signal which can be set by the user to either switch to a lower boost setting or to a safe map. Mine is set to map switch will also cut boost and ignition momentarily.

Luke gtr, I am a firm believe that water injection is a viable alternative to e85, especially for boosted street cars. It offers all the benefits of e85 without the drawbacks. Although I did not conduct a back to back test of e85 vs WMI, I believe that a correctly optimised WMI system could produce results equivalent to running e85.

Cheers

[scotty nm35]

It would need to be running from 0psi to get anywhere near similar results, and the tank wouldn't last long then. How have you counteracted the surge in the tank as it gets low?

I still don't get what drawbacks e85 has? No dramas here for 6 years...

[GTSBoy]

The drawbacks are strictly related to availability and range. Even in major cities, like Adelaide, the number of places available to buy E85 is a small fraction of those where you can get 98. If you are driving on the other side of the burbs from where you normally hang out, and your tank is low, you have to find somewhere. And you have to do it quick because the needle drops that much faster on E85. If you're on 98, you drive in a straight line for 3km and you pass another 2 or 3 BP/Shell/Caltex/Choose your poison locations and you buy 98.

[luke gtr]

The drawbacks are strictly related to availability and range. Even in major cities, like Adelaide, the number of places available to buy E85 is a small fraction of those where you can get 98. If you are driving on the other side of the burbs from where you normally hang out, and your tank is low, you have to find somewhere. And you have to do it quick because the needle drops that much faster on E85. If you're on 98, you drive in a straight line for 3km and you pass another 2 or 3 BP/Shell/Caltex/Choose your poison locations and you buy 98.

this.

and it's easier to get water from a tap at a track than e85.

I don't need every last kw, so water injection only, going from ops results, should do me just fine.

that, and I'd like to be able to drive interstate.

[JGB1600]

The draw backs for a street car/daily driver as I see them are, the availability of e85, the cost of both set and running of e85 compared to water meth injection, lack of consistency of pump e85, consumption (which almost doubles with e85) and the convenience. Yes, flex fuel sensors might address some of these issues but once you start mixing e85 with 98, your power levels will take a dive.

With the WI, as long as you have water or water meth in the tank, the power is the when you want it and you can switch it off when not needed so there is no wastage.

I guess it all comes down to personal preference in the end. Both e85 and WI have proven their ability to produce excellent results, especially on boosted cars. For my situation, in the pros and cons comparison, WI was the clear winner which is why it was chosen. I think the application of the vehicle will play a major role in deciding which option to pick.

[BlackBox]

With a Haltec platinum pro would it be possible to switch between 1 map with certain boost and timing settings and another map with higher boost/more timing that also activates water/meth? So you wouldn't have to constantly be using up water/meth and running the higher power map

[luke gtr]

With a Haltec platinum pro would it be possible to switch between 1 map with certain boost and timing settings and another map with higher boost/more timing that also activates water/meth? So you wouldn't have to constantly be using up water/meth and running the higher power map

was the way I was thinking of doing it.

or, use a gain switch and map according to extra boost.

[JGB1600]

If you can change the haltech maps via a switched input then this is easily achieved. The Aquamist unit outputs to the ecu when it is turned on and off. This signal can be used to change maps. This is pretty much how I have it set up on my car.

[PSI086]

With a Haltec platinum pro would it be possible to switch between 1 map with certain boost and timing settings and another map with higher boost/more timing that also activates water/meth? So you wouldn't have to constantly be using up water/meth and running the higher power map

My HFS3 is hooked up to the map switch input in my PS2000. Mine is the same as what JGB1600 has done, the failsafes will switch to the conservative safe map plus turning the system off at the gauge will also revert to this map

JGB1600 did you find any difference between the HFS3 and 4 or just the extra features?

[JGB1600]

No difference at all. I literally just unplugged the HFS3 control unit and plugged in the HFS4. Still need to enable some of the extra features.

[tridentt150v]

 

With a Haltec platinum pro would it be possible to switch between 1 map with certain boost and timing settings and another map with higher boost/more timing that also activates water/meth? So you wouldn't have to constantly be using up water/meth and running the higher power map

 

No, waste of time. You don't need two maps for that reason [running out and as a fail safe are different reasons]...........

If you get low on WMI all you have to do is run at a lower boost and any good boost controller has that already.

As said your WMI doesn't commence until you reach your trigger levels. So unless you are running at 8psi or 50%IDC all the time then you won't use WMI. You only use it when you go above these thresholds, and if you do run out [and your level switch/warning lights tell you that you have] all you have to do is drive conservatively until you top the WM tank up again. Even then you can get away with straight water until you can get to a methanol supply.

Its a bit like your turbo, it does nothing at 100kp/h [or whenever it spins up], and until you push it you are just driving an in line 6 cylinder car.

I did 2000 km to the GC and back and only used 1.5 litres cos I wasn't going over 8psi/50%IDC all the time highway driving.

A race track could be different for an endurance or longer race. But shorter races you won't see it either - and then you wouldn't be using a lower tune anyway.

[BlackBox]

But if you've got the second map for backup/fail safe then why not have the option of switching to it when you please

[scotty nm35]

The drawbacks are strictly related to availability and range. Even in major cities, like Adelaide,

Major cities... Like Adelaide... Haha.

No issues in Melbourne, there are probably 100+ pumps around the city and country towns now. If you buy it they will install more, if you don't they will take them away. No rocket science involved, just simple economics.

Methanol... You can keep that shit. I don't want it anywhere near my car, or me. Why aren't the drawbacks of methanol ever mentioned?

Range, well I get over 400k's to 45L in the evo. 10L per hundred on the open road. The Stagea is worse probably due to the lower compression.

[GTSBoy]

The Stagea is worse probably due to the lower compression.

Probably more like because it weighs 8 tons.

[scotty nm35]

Probably more like because it weighs 8 tons.

Two, but who's counting.

[luke gtr]

Major cities... Like Adelaide... Haha.

No issues in Melbourne, there are probably 100+ pumps around the city and country towns now. If you buy it they will install more, if you don't they will take them away. No rocket science involved, just simple economics.

Methanol... You can keep that shit. I don't want it anywhere near my car, or me. Why aren't the drawbacks of methanol ever mentioned?

Range, well I get over 400k's to 45L in the evo. 10L per hundred on the open road. The Stagea is worse probably due to the lower compression.

there aren't that many pumps in Sydney.

Can you please post negatives to methanol?

I haven't looked into this previously, but was thinking straight water injection may give me the extra I want.

so, any disadvantages to this (apart from tank size and extra lines)?

[RICE RACING]

Welcome to 1992 when I first made my own mechanical WI system, still run them to this day, simple reliable durable dependable, and just works.

Here is a in line 6 with one of my systems, have supplied them to many Datsun runners across all means of endeavor but most popular is street use.

Want to read about water injection and how to run it, I have info on my page > http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm

I tune ECU remotely to suit via team viewer everything from top spec Life Racing to the getto crap boxes most use here, any ECU can run water injection, even a piece of crap microwreck with my RRWEP140 system.

Good to see someone here sharing the WI love, keep up the good work.

[fmlycar]

On ‎2‎/‎07‎/‎2015 at 2:14 PM, STATUS said:

Water meth is awesome! BUT only if you have sufficient fall back measures literally one pull without the WMI working will turn the engine inside out.

Its UBER important to make sure the ecu can pull timing or shut down the minute the WMI system falters or runs dry.

What safety measures could you recommend for wmi using a power fc with boost control? Or should I get a different boost controller and hook up a relay so if it does fail it switches to a lower pressure?