Vic Wasteland Thread - 15.0

[Borci88]

Probably won't be breaking it with power alone below 600kw+ and some violent driving nope 

[Birds]

3 hours ago, UNR33L said:

those tyres probably cost a fair bit and he only wears like 1/5th of them out lmao. 

At 5 times the speed too

[Birds]

4 hours ago, Mohsen said:

for the GTR, just gonna repair it and have a nice 330ish kw cruiser.

the sedan is being stripped and put into storage.
may come back soon, may come back in like 10 years, i dont know. nothing on the cards for it atm.
 

motor, front end parts and the nice interior pieces will go into the R.
 

Where you putting it in storage? Anywhere I can slot in a car? Will pay monies

[Birds]

28 minutes ago, Daz said:

Just got this from UK forums 

"4th gear is the input shaft effectively. Select 4th and the input shaft is locked to the main shaft and drives straight through at 1.00 ratio - most efficient gear in the box, lay shaft is bypassed"

 

So stock 4th would be pretty strong then?

Yes 4th gear or whatever is 1:1 ratio in a gearbox is the strongest because 1. There is no differential in the ratio (a small gear turning a big gear or vice versa) and 2. No layshaft involved because it's bypassing it and going straight from input shaft to output shaft. You'll snap the input shaft before you lose 4th gear. When you blow another gear 4th is usually all you're left with to limp home in.

It's therefore the best gear to tow a car in (unless going up a hill and struggling in 4th).

A lot of kits only bother with the first three gears because you can't replace the 1:1 and 5th/6th are rarely used or don't see much stress in racing (only on straights). The number of 5th and 6th gears that get smashed from towing trailers/cars in them, however...

[Birds]

2 hours ago, Leroy Peterson said:

Jesse Streeter?

 

@luke gtr @Birds Now's your chance to have that camaro you've aaaaaaaaallllways wanted

http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Chevrolet-Camaro-/OAG-AD-13503676/?Cr=0

Hurr durr what should I advertise my car for...errr I'll add up all my receipts and then add 20 grand appreciation and 30 for the time I put into it, yer that's prolly a good price

[Daz]

40 minutes ago, Birds said:

Yes 4th gear or whatever is 1:1 ratio in a gearbox is the strongest because 1. There is no differential in the ratio (a small gear turning a big gear or vice versa) and 2. No layshaft involved because it's bypassing it and going straight from input shaft to output shaft. You'll snap the input shaft before you lose 4th gear. When you blow another gear 4th is usually all you're left with to limp home in.

It's therefore the best gear to tow a car in (unless going up a hill and struggling in 4th).

A lot of kits only bother with the first three gears because you can't replace the 1:1 and 5th/6th are rarely used or don't see much stress in racing (only on straights). The number of 5th and 6th gears that get smashed from towing trailers/cars in them, however...

Thanks very helpful. 

So I may as well go the 1-3 kit with strengthened holinger input shaft? 

As there is no aftermarket 4th gear then I may as well also retain the factory 5th as I don't really ever race upto 5th (speeds are usually way too high by then and I'm usually lengths ahead already

Edited September 15, 2016 by Daz

[Birds]

35 minutes ago, Daz said:

Thanks very helpful. 

So I may as well go the 1-3 kit with strengthened holinger input shaft? 

As there is no aftermarket 4th gear then I may as well also retain the factory 5th as I don't really ever race upto 5th (speeds are usually way too high by then and I'm usually lengths ahead already

Pretty much. If 4th takes you to 220-230 and you're not going to see above that on the street (I hope lol) then the 5th will only be used on highways for fuel economy. You'll more likely be off boost when accelerating in 5th too, in which case no worries. If it doesn't cost much more for a replacement 5th gear then may as well do it while you're doing the rest, but if it's like $500+ then fk it I say.

[Kinkstaah]

2 hours ago, Borci88 said:

Lmao its f**king not. Stop spreading rubbish. You wouldn't have to carry around a laptop to "fully tune your car wherever you go"  if you had a PFC instead of Nistune.

I don't "have" to. I choose to. And I have a haltech, fyi. With a PowerFC you're at the mercy of whatever happened at the tuner. That's nowhere NEAR enough to be confident in any tune.
Hand controller is a joke when you can interact with an actual ECU.
PowerFC, the official ECU of "Well, it was already there when I got the car..." or "I need something tunable and my stock ECU is not tunable". But if you're there, ANY option beats it out.

[Borci88]

3 minutes ago, Kinkstaah said:

I don't "have" to. I choose to. And I have a haltech, fyi. With a PowerFC you're at the mercy of whatever happened at the tuner. That's nowhere NEAR enough to be confident in any tune.
Hand controller is a joke when you can interact with an actual ECU.
PowerFC, the official ECU of "Well, it was already there when I got the car..." or "I need something tunable and my stock ECU is not tunable". But if you're there, ANY option beats it out.

Ahh a Haltech fanboy I see. 

Hand controller aint a joke, you get a good tuner who knows what hes doing you dont NEED to touch ANYTHING tune wise. You watch the hand controller and read out 8 different sensors that are going on in the engine. 

Have had a Nistune, now I run a PFC. Won't touch a Haltech, too annoying to tune, shit with stock CAS, don't want 8 expander boxes sitting in my foot well just to run a couple of extra sensors. If you could look past the internet fanboy and sales pitch of these ECUs, you would understand that a PFC does EVERYTHING you NEED it to do. 

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

2 minutes ago, Borci88 said:

you get a good tuner who knows what hes doing you dont NEED to touch ANYTHING tune wise. 

This

[Kinkstaah]

It doesn't do antilag, boost by gear, flex fuel, (boost, starting, timing, etc) have a MAP sensor, have a controller I can use on a damn PC...
It doesn't auto log while the car is running so I can go back and see what HAPPENED. It doesn't have 5 channel engine protection. Won't run a wideband (I think?) Won't run a wideband controller.

These are minimum requirements for an ECU.
Never had issues with the CAS on mine.

If you don't think a tune needs a touchup or monitoring then ...  well, lets say once you see it you can't unsee it or live happily without it.

[Borci88]

4 minutes ago, Kinkstaah said:

It doesn't do antilag, boost by gear, flex fuel, (boost, starting, timing, etc) have a MAP sensor, have a controller I can use on a damn PC...
It doesn't auto log while the car is running so I can go back and see what HAPPENED. It doesn't have 5 channel engine protection.

 

These are minimum requirements for an ECU.
Never had issues with the CAS on mine.

If you don't think a tune needs a touchup or monitoring then ...  well, lets say once you see it you can't unsee it or live happily without it.

Not needed but PFC PRO does antilag, Not Needed, Not needed in 9/10 cases, D-Jetro.

The only downside to PFCs is engine protection, other than that they do the job and they do the job reliably. You are KIDDING yourself if you think you NEED those features. 

PFC = $500 + $500 to tune
Haltech = $2400 + $900+ to tune with all the features (This doesn't include the cost of the IO Boxes and paying someone to wire it all in)

Guess what, they both get me down to the shops.. and they both get me out on the race track reliably. Guess what I'll be choosing... 

[Kinkstaah]

That's great, but like I said - Maybe you can live without knowing. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

I use *all* of the features I listed, it has plenty more I don't, and any other major ECU will do this too (or more, like Traction control on Motec, etc).
They do the job. They can provide a tune to an otherwise untenable car.

Power FC can't do anything ANYTHING that another ECU can, and a lot of things provide more features than a PowerFC.

 

Your "not needed" is my "holy shit that saved my engine" or "useful diagnostic tool". There's no reason to choose a PowerFC over anything. Ever. Unless you got it essentially for free.

The argument can be made that the PFC is enough. It can't be made that it's better.

[Borci88]

Never said it was a better package overall. It's better value for money though. Anyway, agree to disagree on this one.

[Rekin]

To get around my wiring drama I'll be using a r34 ecu + nistune but loading a stagea rom. This is due to stagea not having traction control which the r34 does....

Now I need to work out how to bypass ecu going into limp mode due to abs missing.

[emts]

hit it with a hammer till it forgets about ABS?

[Birds]

1 hour ago, Kinkstaah said:

I don't "have" to. I choose to. And I have a haltech, fyi. With a PowerFC you're at the mercy of whatever happened at the tuner. That's nowhere NEAR enough to be confident in any tune.
Hand controller is a joke when you can interact with an actual ECU.
PowerFC, the official ECU of "Well, it was already there when I got the car..." or "I need something tunable and my stock ECU is not tunable". But if you're there, ANY option beats it out.

There's a bit of misinformation here dude!

For starters, you pay a tuner to sort out a tune for you. If you're not confident in a tune that you can leave it static / set and forget until you've changed something significant about the vehicle, then you need a new tuner who doesn't work on a knife edge and can allow for some variance. That extra 5rwkw is not worth it.

Hand controllers can actually do a lot considering what most use them for (sensor display/diagnostics). Having one is a luxury and not a necessity; no one is claiming it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it's very occasionally handy to adjust settings like idle without carrying around out a laptop.

Meanwhile you're pretty much slating the modern luxuries of modern ECUs as necessities and bare minimums when they aren't.

What really shuts this down is that you can interact directly with the ECU and tune a PFC yourself, easily. I have an FC Hako USB cable, which cost about $100 from memory, and sits in my glovebox. At any time I can plug it into a laptop and tune to my hearts content or log data. Minus flex fuel, which I don't actually need, there is nothing a Haltech or Nistune will give me over and above the PFC. The proof of this is that I've run one flawlessly for the last 5 years and "upgrading" the ECU would give me nothing but headaches and minus $1000-2000. It's dinosaur tech, but they got it right the first time.

[Kinkstaah]

Birds... you don't use the functions I use on a daily basis and require.

No tuner, Not Chequered, Not Racepace pump out tunes that can't be touched up and modified on the road. Maybe you're OK with a good enough tune that feels right. Maybe you're not like me and will look at graphs and change a fuel cell months after the fact because the AFR is out by 0.5 in a certain cell I barely hit. Cars change. I know what mine is doing and a fuel pump failing will never kill me, neither will a filter, neither will any of this. It's not the car will explode under load. It's ALLLLLLL the stuff that is NOT full load that you can DIY. Saving you tuning time, if you're in to that, too. Plus you get a car that really DOES drive like a factory car.

Trust me when I say your car will feel absolutely fine blasting down the street on boost at 13:1 AFR or 14:1 AFR.
Ever drive the car and have a strange miss? Going back in time and seeing what happened is un-losable once you can. Hand controllers are great, but a laptop is better. Learn your car and your setup and within a short period of time you'll just be borrowing the dyno instead of being at the mercy of someone tuning your car for you. Knowing wtf they are doing and why and how is really quite rewarding.

But I do. Even not having access to flex is an instant game breaker. Like it could do everything EXCEPT flex and yep, sorry, game breaker. These are features that I live and use all the time. Not everyone does, but I do and I would certainly never go back. Cold starts across an entire year? Not a problem. If it is a problem, you can just sort it out.

The power FC is a basic unit which can give the same features of essentially a factory tuned ECU.

I really, really, like the extra features and all I've said is if someone said "I don't have an ECU, what would you buy?" a PowerFC is never on that list. It's just not. It's the same reason you wouldn't suggest someone put a T40Z or HKS T51R on their car in 2016, but you wouldn't necessarily destroy for no reason.

 

 

 

[Birds]

38 minutes ago, emts said:

hit it with a hammer till it forgets about ABS?

Didn't work out so well for Hillary Clinton

[Birds]

8 hours ago, Kinkstaah said:

Birds... you don't use the functions I use on a daily basis and require.

No tuner, Not Chequered, Not Racepace pump out tunes that can't be touched up and modified on the road. Maybe you're OK with a good enough tune that feels right. Maybe you're not like me and will look at graphs and change a fuel cell months after the fact because the AFR is out by 0.5 in a certain cell I barely hit. Cars change. I know what mine is doing and a fuel pump failing will never kill me, neither will a filter, neither will any of this. It's not the car will explode under load. It's ALLLLLLL the stuff that is NOT full load that you can DIY. Saving you tuning time, if you're in to that, too. Plus you get a car that really DOES drive like a factory car.

Trust me when I say your car will feel absolutely fine blasting down the street on boost at 13:1 AFR or 14:1 AFR.
Ever drive the car and have a strange miss? Going back in time and seeing what happened is un-losable once you can. Hand controllers are great, but a laptop is better. Learn your car and your setup and within a short period of time you'll just be borrowing the dyno instead of being at the mercy of someone tuning your car for you. Knowing wtf they are doing and why and how is really quite rewarding.

But I do. Even not having access to flex is an instant game breaker. Like it could do everything EXCEPT flex and yep, sorry, game breaker. These are features that I live and use all the time. Not everyone does, but I do and I would certainly never go back. Cold starts across an entire year? Not a problem. If it is a problem, you can just sort it out.

The power FC is a basic unit which can give the same features of essentially a factory tuned ECU.

I really, really, like the extra features and all I've said is if someone said "I don't have an ECU, what would you buy?" a PowerFC is never on that list. It's just not. It's the same reason you wouldn't suggest someone put a T40Z or HKS T51R on their car in 2016, but you wouldn't necessarily destroy for no reason.

 

 

 

More misinformation man...

I can change my RacePace tune myself and have done so...while driving out on the road. You can mess with the fuel cells if you really want to. You say a laptop is better...great...I have that with the PFC, I can data log and tune with it why are you saying you can't? Besides that, no, I haven't actually had a strange miss...my tune is awesome cause I paid a professional to set it up for me.

My car feels like a factory tune, perfectly so. It's what I paid Chris to do for me.

You're going OCD on ECUs and blaming the PFC for having shortcomings it doesn't actually have.