Vic Wasteland Thread - 15.0

[blah_blah]

I might add this is on 15 year old rock hard Tein HA's, worn tyres and currently -2.7camber on the rears 

[Birds]

12 minutes ago, Kinkstaah said:

This is actually the plan and what I have recommended to many people in the many years I've had problems actually. I would wager the difference in the tune you (and Hamish) had on 98 and E85 wasn't too major (i.e it probably was not running 12 degrees more timing and 10psi more boost) because the E85 can take it but the rest can't.

I feel if you picked up 80rwkw and 120kw in your top end from just running E85 then more people would run into problems, especially when it looks perfect on a dyno, etc. It may be a bigger issue for people in the future as there's turbos out there in the wild that can handle high pressure (GTX) and big injectors and fuel pumps are easily available. They weren't in the past, there was always some restriction (Z32, PFC, 555's, 040, Highflow) looks different to (MAP, Haltech, 2000's, Walbro 416, GTX)

But like you said, and even I've said that about 320kw is where you want to stay in a RWD Skyline, mainly because after that:
1) Engine rebuild become more likely
2) Grip starts becoming an issue for any kind of road tyre
3) Gearboxes start exploding
4) Clutches and such start becoming scarce, hard to drive, find, etc

I don't think I've really been overly unlucky, I've just done things based on info here, and what should "be fine"... and freely share the info so hopefully others can not have sadness with their own car adventures

The difference between my 98 and E85 tunes was all in the timing, no boost adjustment. The 98 was pinging when we pushed it to 260rwkw so we dialed back to 252. The E85 did 275rwkw safely and the midrange saw 40rwkw gained. The rationale is, why stress the engine and components when you can make it safer than your safe 98 tune was, with heaps better response and power.

[Kinkstaah]

1 minute ago, Birds said:

The difference between my 98 and E85 tunes was all in the timing, no boost adjustment. The 98 was pinging when we pushed it to 260rwkw so we dialed back to 252. The E85 did 275rwkw safely and the midrange saw 40rwkw gained. The rationale is, why stress the engine and components when you can make it safer than your safe 98 tune was, with heaps better response and power.

You *can*

My point was what if you said "We added timing and I made 375rwkw". The fuel will allow this but most likely something else would have stopped you, run out of injectors, fuel pump, AFM maxes out, fear of blowing gearbox, clutch slip, etc.

Its far easier nowadays to have none of the above stop you, and you can go right ahead and make 252kw on 98 due to pinging, and make 375RWKW on E85 because of the fuel, but 'something else' will be the thing that stops you and it won't be pretty.

[Birds]

1 minute ago, blah_blah said:

I might add this is on 15 year old rock hard Tein HA's, worn tyres and currently -2.7camber on the rears 

Road surface can make a big difference but I'll believe this when I see it

On 50% 265 AD08Rs 0 degrees superstreets with a KAAZ 1.5 way I couldn't get 2nd to hold 275rwkw on most non-freeway roads

So either something not right with my setup or our power figures aren't matching up

[Birds]

1 minute ago, Kinkstaah said:

You *can*

My point was what if you said "We added timing and I made 375rwkw". The fuel will allow this but most likely something else would have stopped you, run out of injectors, fuel pump, AFM maxes out, fear of blowing gearbox, clutch slip, etc.

Its far easier nowadays to have none of the above stop you, and you can go right ahead and make 252kw on 98 due to pinging, and make 375RWKW on E85 because of the fuel, but 'something else' will be the thing that stops you and it won't be pretty.

So my point all along is, forget about your 375rwkw, pick out a small turbo that will produce around 300rwkw on E85 and be happy with that. E85 isn't a permission slip for dyno queens to put their printed charts on their rear parcel shelves, itjust makes good setups even better. I bet most of these high powered E85 setups, yours included, would be horrible to drive on their 98 tunes too.

[blah_blah]

7 minutes ago, Birds said:

Road surface can make a big difference but I'll believe this when I see it

On 50% 265 AD08Rs 0 degrees superstreets with a KAAZ 1.5 way I couldn't get 2nd to hold 275rwkw on most non-freeway roads

So either something not right with my setup or our power figures aren't matching up

Happy to go for a highway roll Saturday arvo

*Note i may need a few warm up runs due to car cutting out power when cold. *racepace tune*

[Kinkstaah]

14 minutes ago, Birds said:

So my point all along is, forget about your 375rwkw, pick out a small turbo that will produce around 300rwkw on E85 and be happy with that. E85 isn't a permission slip for dyno queens to put their printed charts on their rear parcel shelves, itjust makes good setups even better. I bet most of these high powered E85 setups, yours included, would be horrible to drive on their 98 tunes too.

My car never actually drove badly in any state of the tune, which is why I post about it, because it can take you by surprise and break in unexpected ways with no warning. you may not have turned it up to 375kw if you could have, but it is becoming easier and easier for people out there to buy 'new' stuff where the difference between 252 being knock limited and 375kw driving perfectly fine on the same hardware is the difference between using united or not.

My plan is actually to do pretty much what you've said though. I want a T4 EFR7163 or 7670 for better manifold and heat flow and all of those good things to aim for more reliableness and eliminate more problem factors. Pretty much the goal is have a setup that some forum junkie would say MATE GOOD FOR 600KW then go and make 300kw on it.

Its also worth noting that my 98 tune which made 320kw through the auto (way less boost, way less timing) had literal 0 problems with WOT grip in any gear, but the auto may have had something to do with it, but that said the auto resulted in more torque earlier so who knows. It may not be directly comparable.

[Birds]

21 minutes ago, blah_blah said:

Happy to go for a highway roll Saturday arvo

*Note i may need a few warm up runs due to car cutting out power when cold. *racepace tune*

Gf getting makeup done so that might work well...I live pretty close to you now I think.

[UNR33L]

Racewars, I would come but skylines are too easy to chop 

[blah_blah]

3 minutes ago, Birds said:

Gf getting makeup done so that might work well...I live pretty close to you now I think.

Where abouts you living now Adam?

Just now, UNR33L said:

Racewars, I would come but skylines are too easy to chop 

 

Lol Leigh

[Leroy Peterson]

I once gave the pulsar a good run on fentree gully rd cnr of blackburn. Road turns to shit from all the trucks. Afterwards i was scared. Was the dumbest f**king thing, ill never be doing that again. Torque steer with road that slippery and uneven = instant P-plater VN death.

[Birds]

Does Pulsar use an intermediate shaft across the back of the engine?

[Birds]

On 12/8/2016 at 10:01 AM, Birds said:

London down, we've followed, I'm locked in now...

Could this be the end of the streak?

But the streak goes on...da-da-dum da-dum

Pip trading done right

[Leroy Peterson]

intermediate shaft? wha?

my break even is 4.5c, so will just sit tight till then. tax man is gonna love you.

[Birds]

Depending how much you've invested, you could give short terming a go in the meantime to average down.

But pretty confident we will return to 5 cents plus during the course of pre/post IW2 unless it's a duster which isn't likely.

Tax man is going to bend me over chronic. Though as someone on HC once told me...don't be scared of CGT, it just means that you're winning / won for the year.

[Count Grantleyish]

Still surprised it hasn't renamed to 88e thread.

[Birds]

19 minutes ago, Leroy Peterson said:

intermediate shaft? wha?

my break even is 4.5c, so will just sit tight till then. tax man is gonna love you.

In some FWDs mostly European, they run a small straight shaft across the back of the engine from the FWD diff so that the CV shafts on both sides have equal length and the same angle

Helps a great deal with torque steer

[Daz]

Still remember when the Chequered claimed 600kw V12KLR supra went on a roller dyno and struggled to make 480kw bwahahahaha

[UNR33L]

I think that was at a dyno day in footscray, I remember they kept on turning the boost up trying to beat my car and it had like 10 runs when the rest had 3 haha. I think I made 355ish and he made 348, it was close. My mate ended up with the most from his charged XR8 (which he is stripping to sell parts off now :() 

Also remember at the same joint in early 2012 when my car was stock at the SAU dyno day and somehow won with 286 lel. How the f**k.

Just found the video LOL (Oh it was TRD-666, not v12 killer)

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by UNR33L

[Leroy Peterson]

Helps a great deal with torque steer

Real drivers just hold onto the steering wheel properly. Mech diff makes a world of difference though.
Pretty sure most east-west mid engined cars run ok without equal driveshaft lengths. Obviously dont steer with those wheels, but its not a deal breaker... Unless 450hp+