Car Pinging, Had It Tuned And Still Pinging

[SargeRX8]

Anyone able to shed some light?

I'm running a stock internal motor with a SS2 turbo at 17psi and the car is pinging. I had it retuned by a popular and recommended shop and they also caught on the pinging and said they have tuned the car and eliminated the ping. Needless to say, it still pings.

I've got 740cc injectors with a brand new 255l walbro genuine pump and all the supporting mods. I was told that my CAS is producing excess electrical noise and this could be partially to blame for the pinging.

Is this the case? If I go out and buy a brand new CAS for $500+ will it eliminate my pinging?

Regardless of ambient temp or operating temp the car will still randomly ping. Boost holds quite flat at 17psi.

Any ideas on what I can do?

Edited September 1, 2015 by SargeRX8

[breaker1845]

What ECU? How do you know it is still pinging? Where knock ears used throughout tuning?

There are several other noises that can give false readings and just general engine vibrations which can be picked up on knock monitors.

You can hook an oscilloscope up to the CAS to view the signal it is producing, whether it is clean or noisy.

[tridentt150v]

What power you making?

Anyway I have a GT3076 and std motor [well Tomei sticks] and it was pinging pretty bad......took it to a few different tuners but none seemed to have the answer so I went with WMI and fixed it. Bit frustrating because others on here were using the same set up and it was working fine with no rattle. On the bright side I took another step up in power.

Not saying that you will have to do it, but each car/motor is just that little bit different.

[Hadouken]

The wmi would only have masked the issue.

Probably the same if you went e85.

[tridentt150v]

True, but I couldn't find a guru who could give inner peace. It worked and I'm not complaining. For $1500 I fixed [or masked] the knock and gained 15-20 kw.

Apologies to OP.

[89CAL]

You can log the signal from the CAS with an oscilliscope (i believe) and check for any roughness in the signal if you want to be absoloutly sure thats the issue

Personally Id just find someone with a known working (100%) CAS and swap to check if that solves the issue

Im interested (as above) to know what makes you think it is pinging, as most good tuning shops use proper knock monitors

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

change the CAS

[Humbla]

who tuned it. ?

[t_revz]

I've got same turbo,injectors and boost but modified engine. Just recently tried to wind it up after rebuild and Cas signal is crap. Jumps 80 rpm at 800. 300 at 3k etc. only running 9-10 degrees at wot through full rev range and made 340rwhp. I found the Cas internals on eBay for $100ish or slightly cheaper at Veales. I wanna pull mine apart to confirm which internal bit it has as looks like there could be a couple different types of internals for the Cas's going by the photos. When mine was further advanced it misfired but didn't knock

[SargeRX8]

What ECU? How do you know it is still pinging? Where knock ears used throughout tuning?

There are several other noises that can give false readings and just general engine vibrations which can be picked up on knock monitors.

You can hook an oscilloscope up to the CAS to view the signal it is producing, whether it is clean or noisy.

I'm using a Power FC. All I have to go by is my Power FC monitor. I took it to the tuner as it was pinging and misfiring at the time to have both issues corrected. They confirmed the ping and said it shouldn't ping anymore.

I am aware that plenty of mechanical components can set off the knock monitor to show a false reading but I don't want to take it lightly especially if it can cost me an engine. I don't have access to an oscilloscope. Can the Power FC software log raw data from the CAS?

What power you making?

Anyway I have a GT3076 and std motor [well Tomei sticks] and it was pinging pretty bad......took it to a few different tuners but none seemed to have the answer so I went with WMI and fixed it. Bit frustrating because others on here were using the same set up and it was working fine with no rattle. On the bright side I took another step up in power.

Not saying that you will have to do it, but each car/motor is just that little bit different.

Around 250rwkw. The car never showed any pinging when it was running on a very low boost tune but there is no fun at 12psi.

who tuned it. ?

Unigroup Engineering.

I don't think they would fudge me and say the CAS is f**ked if it isn't the case. I also don't think I can get access to a CAS to test. What would be the best method to approach this problem?

[t_revz]

Mine showing road and engine speed at 100 km/h

[breaker1845]

Just to clear a few things up.

The Power FC knock monitor is horrible and can give really high readings which are false. Interested to know what kind of values you are getting on the hand controller if that is your concern?

Do you know what particular load on the map that you get this pinging if you believe it is still there?

Unigroup tuned the car, removed the pinging and they suggest a new CAS?

I'd have faith Unigroup would of removed the pinging if your concern is the number coming up on the hand controller. Your CAS could definitely be contributing to the problem if the signal is not clean.

Best thing you could do is talk to the guys at Unigroup about your issue after the tune if you still believe there is a problem and try not to boost it so much while driving.

Edited September 2, 2015 by breaker1845

[SargeRX8]

Just to clear a few things up.

The Power FC knock monitor is horrible and can give really high readings which are false. Interested to know what kind of values you are getting on the hand controller if that is your concern?

Do you know what particular load on the map that you get this pinging if you believe it is still there?

Unigroup tuned the car, removed the pinging and they suggest a new CAS?

I'd have faith Unigroup would of removed the pinging if your concern is the number coming up on the hand controller. Your CAS could definitely be contributing to the problem if the signal is not clean.

Best thing you could do is talk to the guys at Unigroup about your issue after the tune if you still believe there is a problem and try not to boost it so much while driving.

The values are usually quite consistent between 70 and 90, sometimes up to 110. It will only ever happen when pushing the car and usually between 5000rpm and redline.

No idea which cell as I don't trace when it knocks and I don't have anyone capable of watching it for me because they don't know what to look for.

What frustrated me the most about the experience with the tuner is they did not tell me the CAS was noisy prior to turning rather they tuned the car then told me the CAS was noisy. If I knew this prior to having the car tuned I would have payed for a new CAS and had it installed then tuned. As such they also tuned around a lazy fuel pump. I would have been happy to receive a phone call mid tune saying your CAS is screwed or my fuel pump was lazy, what do you want us to do. The pump has been upgraded and they said the car may run rich is this is the case. The car is not running any lean conditions and I am not peaking the injector duty cycle.

I work in a trade where we need to look at customer equipment. Prior to beginning work or even during work, if we notice a work we stop straight away. I gave my car in with an issue and asked for it to be fixed and then looked at after all problems were fixed, not bandage fixed around a problem. This will cost me a full retune now. I called to have the car touched up and they said just to plug the laptop into my car is $500.

[breaker1845]

Those values are fairly high and past the limit of safe knock. What I think is your CAS could be contributing to the problem with the noise it is producing but the fuel pump being lazy, especially at WOT seems to be the major one.

It's unfortunate that they decide to do the full tune rather than contact you to discuss options on fixing the problem before finishing the tune.

The upgraded fuel pump will cause your car to run richer than before with the lazy one, shouldn't be a drastic change but it will work in your favour rather than against for pinging.

The reality of workshops is most will be the same and like that also, unless you build a relationship with one and get to know them personally they'll band-aid a problem like that because it means more money in their pocket unfortunately not working in the favour of the customer.

[SargeRX8]

Those values are fairly high and past the limit of safe knock. What I think is your CAS could be contributing to the problem with the noise it is producing but the fuel pump being lazy, especially at WOT seems to be the major one.

It's unfortunate that they decide to do the full tune rather than contact you to discuss options on fixing the problem before finishing the tune.

The upgraded fuel pump will cause your car to run richer than before with the lazy one, shouldn't be a drastic change but it will work in your favour rather than against for pinging.

The reality of workshops is most will be the same and like that also, unless you build a relationship with one and get to know them personally they'll band-aid a problem like that because it means more money in their pocket unfortunately not working in the favour of the customer.

This is why I am concerned, those numbers are too high to take lightly. I was hoping they were true to their word that the ping is gone. If this was the case, the fuel pump upgrade would have only made the tune safer. This wasn't the case.

I don't like being taken for a ride. When I picked up my car and they told me what they done, I felt insulted. If it wasn't so late at night I probably would not have just payed and walked away and thus I will not be going back there for a re-tune.

If they told me, prior to tuning, I need a new pump and need a new CAS, boom fix it and give me the bill. Instead I payed them and was told to fix it my self then take it there for a re-tune.

I will look to getting a new CAS. At the moment my injectors peak at around 70% so I have plenty of headroom in the fuel system. I will take the car for a re-tune afterwards as this is all I can do.

[tridentt150v]

Umm, don't be too hard on them. They are pretty used to Skyline owners doing some of the easy done stuff and saving a few dollars. If it was me I'd probably be the other way and start hating if they did change the CAS or fuel pump cos they would charge you heaps plus add progit margins to the items as well as the labour. I'd feel like I was paying 'good money for old rope' as they say.

The time they spend on the dyno is still time, so if they tune then decide the tune is crappy and then replace items - they will retune and still charge for the dyno time again, so in the end you'd lkely not save that much by doing it all at once plus they may use parts you don't want them to use. As well as this they really have no idea - until you build a relationship up as breaker says - what your plans are for the car and how far your willing to go/how much you can afford to spend???

[kingtube69]

Uuuuggghh I'm considering going to Unigroup for my tune but this has sort of shaken me.

Trident has somewhat quelled my fears though...

[sneakey pete]

You went to them and asked them to fix the ping and missfire, so I can see why they may not have stopped the job when they found the issues. Still unfortunate

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

drive your car and get someone to monitor the voltage.. if it fluctuates heavily that could also contribute to the issue...

Also find/borrow a CAS and see if your problems go away. For some reason, I always hear of PowerFC and CAS issues (I'm not saying it's related but just comes up quite often).

Make sure you sync the timing when you change the CAS.

[SargeRX8]

You went to them and asked them to fix the ping and missfire, so I can see why they may not have stopped the job when they found the issues. Still unfortunate

They should have stopped. I asked to fix a pinging issue, it didn't mean the tune on their was bad but something causing a ping in the rev range. They still kept going.

I found a shop selling brand new units for around $500, I'll grab one of those and fit it on then get the timing done..

Would the CAS require the car to be tuned or would this just eliminate the chance of a fluctuation which causes a misfire?