Illicit Drugs

[-FIGJAM-]

TBH im actually laughing at this idiot.

seems like a good high

[-FIGJAM-]

Yeah if you think a normal person is going to go from pot to heroin your an idiot.

plenty of people do. Heroin isnt really a party drug, gives a great high and is stupidly addictive. If you get some pure enough you can smoke it which gets rid of the fear of the needle

[Anfanee]

Sounds like a lot of opinions in here.

There are some legitimate uses for current 'illicit drugs"

Marijuana in the treatment of people with chronic illnesses for example. It is used medicinally and legally around the world.

MDMA for the treatment of PSTD. (common in trial treatments of returned servicemen)

Ketamine for Bipolar

Psychedelics for anxiety, depression. (Psilocybin & LSD)

There is a big difference to prescribed medication and making it easily available. Also the majority of Medicinal marijuana isn't even smoked, its made from an oil.

on top of that, have you ever seen someone that has been on Marijuana for years and it hasn't messed them up? I know i have not.

Yeah if you think a normal person is going to go from pot to heroin your an idiot.

The point is, everyone that is on heroin started somewhere. Statistically speaking it's Pot, and slips from there.

Now i'm completely open to properties of certain drugs being used for health reasons. But to make it completely legal is definitely not the way to go. There are massive impacts it would have on society.

Drug driving, turning up to work high (made even worse if you are in a trade and user power tools), people not even looking after their own kids. I know as a manager i have enough to deal with at the moment without having to worry about that kind of stuff (within reason obviously). I had to remove someone when i was at my old work because he turned up high. It's a big, expensive, annoying thing to go through as a workplace.

[JAS-25T]

I did not say anything about the difference between prescribed or making it easily available.

I did not say anything about how marijuana is consumed.

I did not say anything about people you know being messed up on marijuana.

Are you making up discussion points to argue?

[PranK]

TBH im actually laughing at this idiot.

I'm laughing at the taser-armed cop that's scared of him!

[PranK]

seems like a good high

He just sounds like Adam Sandler.

[Manuel Kasko]

have you ever seen someone that has been on Marijuana for years and it hasn't messed them up? I know i have not.

Pretty much this sums everything up.

I also like the idea of medical marijuana but it seems to be easily abused as well, I recently saw a stoner friend with a license to buy the stuff overseas.

He 100% scammed the system and some how can now buy the stuff legally.

[Birds]

Yeah if you think a normal person is going to go from pot to heroin your an idiot.

If you think a normal person is going to go straight to heroin...

They are called gateways for a reason

[Birds]

Please don't confuse possession and use. They decriminalised possession. use went down subsequently.

You state that they decriminalised use and illegal use went down. Incorrect.

My bad, I forgot about the people who like walking around with drugs for the sake of it but don't actually use them?

[Anfanee]

My bad, I forgot about the people who like walking around with drugs for the sake of it but don't actually use them?

Who said sarcasm doesn't work on the interweb hahahahaha

[Anfanee]

[JAS-25T]

My bad, I forgot about the people who like walking around with drugs for the sake of it but don't actually use them?

What point are you trying to make here? You're detracting from the facts by obfuscating.

The fact remains, there are correlations to legalising drug possession and reduced illicit drug use.

There are no correlations to legalising illicit drug use reducing the number of people charged with illicit drug use.

Point being made by the Branson article is that the methods used Portugal have proven to reduce illicit drug use, as opposed to current prohibition, which does not.

[Birds]

Really? My point is pretty clear I thought. They decriminalised the possession of drugs and illegal use of drugs went down. Illegal use going down is an obvious and redundant positive to decriminalising drugs - you can decriminalise running through a red light and amazingly the number of fines issued for running a red light will see a significant decrease. Do you see where this gets stupid?

I'm still trying to ascertain the point you were trying to make in suggesting that personal possession does not equal use. So I ask you, who carries a personal amount of drugs but does not use actually them?

[JAS-25T]

It doesn't matter who carries drugs and what they do to them. This is not the point.

The data shows a correlation between legalising possession and a reduction in use.

Possession becomes legal = less users.

[JAS-25T]

The other point that is clear is that prohibition does not work to reduce user numbers.

[gtr jet]

Small time dealers?

[Anfanee]

That Branson article is a little skewed... Though i do see what they are trying to say.

For example:

The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%. Drug use in older teens also declined. Life time heroin use among 16-18 year olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8%. - Looking at only teen use, ignoring the statistics of other age gaps, and only providing evidence that shows in favor. He also didn't link the paper so people can read it for themselves. Not to mention the drugs are not illegal anymore, so are they stating that it was the drugs that were illegal?

Following decriminalization, Portugal has the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the EU: 10%. The most comparable figure in America is in people over 12: 39.8%, Proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana. -Again it is ignoring some statistics. They are just stating Marijuana, ignoring Hard drugs. So Marijuana may drop, but Ice for exaple may have doubled.

New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003. - Again the study went on longer than 2003. What happened after 2003? Also a given due to needles made more available.

Death related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. -A given as it would be made properly, not like the underground stuff is. It would be pure.

The number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and the considerable money saved on enforcement allowed for increase funding of drug free treatment as well. -They say this is a good thing? I would like to see the statistic of drug users vs rehab users. For all we know rehab users doubled, but hard drug users tripled.

Property theft has dropped dramatically (50% - 80% of all property theft worldwide is caused by drug users). -this is just a statement, no data to back it up

The point i'm trying to make is he has not given all of the data to prove a point. He has picked the positives to paint a better light. If someone can find the actual report he is referring to i'll happily read it and report back. But i'm not convinced from that article at all.

[Birds]

I also don't see an influx of more than double the admissions to rehab clinics as necessarily a measure of success, quite the contrary unless I'm given more information about the admissions, such as their use before and after the introduction of decriminalisation.

Do people really think that making a drug legal is going to reduce people using it?

[Anfanee]

Also it is worth noting Branson is a fking nut job.

[Birds]

It doesn't matter who carries drugs and what they do to them. This is not the point.

The data shows a correlation between legalising possession and a reduction in use.

Possession becomes legal = less users.

But it doesn't. Illegal use went down. Nowhere in that article did I see hard evidence that decriminalizing possession resulted in less users.

Not to mention it's completely illogical, unless your users are only doing it because it's illegal. Which would be way overcome by the statistic of people wanting to use/try now that it is legal.