Illicit Drugs

[Anfanee]

my point is simple, you can destroy your life on just as many vices that are legal, why not just make some of the party drugs legal, collect some tax revenue from them, introduce a better quality product to the market that is regulated.

otherwise, become a muslim state, no alcohol, no gambling, etc

I believe in freedom of choice

The line is drawn at where you can destroy other peoples life. And yes i know alcohol does that.

But that is why they are tightening restrictions of alcohol. It is already in to deep to get rid of it. I hate the impact alcohol has had on society as it is (i don't drink)

Also i can guarantee that the extra tax revenue from drugs would go straight into drug treatment facilities, domestic violence issues, centrelink payments, more cops etc.etc.

and Mitch freedom of choice i get, i really do. But if you say decide to do drugs, and kill someone from a car accident or w/e. What choice did they get? Just because you wanted to get high justifies someones child being killed? How selfish we have become. I'll use an example for you mate:

What would you do if someone turned up to work high all the time? Old mate Fire would be back!

What financial impact does that have on the business? It costs my contract about 20k a month when we lose someone. It's not a cheap process.

And to be perfectly frank, anyone that thinks they need to do drugs to have a good time needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

[-FIGJAM-]

I don't think we will see eye to eye on this topic. we each have a point of view.

I just don't see the difference between a weekend drinker to a weekend drug user

[Trozzle]

Too much emotion and opinion in here, and not enough discussion of factual information pertaining to 'drugs'.

It's disheartening to again see the difference in stance one person can have between various recreational drugs entirely based on their scheduling. You cannot paint all "illicit drugs" with the same brush. That's the height of ignorance.

Not counting Terry, I can confidently state I likely have the most knowledge on the illicit drugs themselves, their effects, and how they can be used safely/responsibly (which in the case of things like methamphetamine and heroin, for example, is incredibly difficult enough to accept 'impossible', but can and has been done). My experience with the drugs themselves and their wider effect on the community however is limited. I certainly have none of the first/second hand experience some in here do regarding how the flow on effect from someone's drug use can ruin lives and communities. It can, but largely it isn't the drug to blame per se, but a much wider issue encompassing lack of education (made worse by intentional spreading of misinformation) and a myriad of potential mental health/society based problems.

Again, too much emotion in this discussion for it to have real value. Some of you need to try to step back and consider the picture from an outside unbiased perspective. Read factual information about the substances you want to discuss, and form an informed opinion; don't state something as fact you cannot back up with a source reference, and stop listening to the absolute bullshit you're fed on the subject.

It's not like the governments of the western world haven't widely distributed absolute fictitious lies on the subject in the past.

I don't mean to offend or insult anyone who's posted in here with the above either. We're all entitled to our opinions and beliefs, I'd just like to try clearing some up

Edited October 9, 2015 by Trozzle

[Manuel Kasko]

I was waiting for you to come on in here

[JAS-25T]

You can't claim you're most knowledgeable on the topic without qualifying the statement I'm afraid. that's not how logical discussion works.

I tend to agree on most of your other points.

More importantly, I'm looking to buy the golf R wagon. What's your opinion of the hatch?

[Trozzle]

I'm unsure how to qualify the statement (well, I do, but not sure it's worth it), but for the most part given what I know of the others that have posted in here, my claim is true. I don't mean to send the message that I'm saying anyone's explicitly wrong in what they've posted, but aside from the resident pharmacist Terry, my knowledge of the individuals in here tells me they wouldn't be as learned on the topic.

I'm not trying to toot my own horn either. Something tells me given the audience (you lot), admitting I know far more than anyone really should about illicit recreational substances doesn't earn me brownie points. I've already experienced SAU's opinions on the matter in the past.

Ask me a question, or hand me a statement to address, and I'll respond to the best of my knowledge. But the moment you bring personal stuff into the discussion (like your experiences with a drunk driver killing someone, or a family member that lost the plot thanks to weed or something), you're introducing bias. It's understandable, but doesn't help hold a civil discussion.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Trozzle

[Trozzle]

Off-topic question: Absolutely love the R. Not sure I'd go the wagon, coz ultimately the hatch with the back seats flat has more than enough room (comfortably fits both mine and the missus' pushbikes), and the addition of the extra weight isn't quite my idea of what the R should be. That being said, that's a matter of personal opinion. I don't particularly like Stageas, but one can't really refute their relative performance, and they are to the Skyline what the R wagon is to the hatch.

Get a Wolfsburg though!

[JAS-25T]

You can qualify it easily. State your relevant experience or qualifications. Simple.

Stating what you have about your opinion of others borders on narcissism.

100% agree on the emotional opinions of personal experiences, but that's what the OP asked for.

Yeah already got my name down for one. Wolfsburg is the only wagon available at the moment. Blue with a roof.

Hatch isn't an option as instead of bikes we carry prams.

The weight penalty isn't as much as you'd think. 0.1 to 100km/h

I've always been a fan of European wagons over their hatch or sedan equivalents in terms of rear styling.

[-FIGJAM-]

im from campbelltown.... enough said

[-FIGJAM-]

also Troy haven't seen you on here for ages where have you been?

[Birds]

I was waiting for you to come on in here

I brought him here because the flames had died down a bit

[Trozzle]

I've moved on to a different forum community, partially from the inactivity here, and partially from the close minded opinions shared on certain subjects (most notably this one), which directly ties in to my above claims, which I'll elaborate on a little when I get back to work.

My reason for not wanting to qualify my claims? As above, I'll be met with the height of judgemental opinion, based purely on ignorance to fact (and I honestly don't mean that as an insult, there's not really anything wrong with being ignorant on this subject).

[-FIGJAM-]

fair enough mate, drugs are always a touchy subject because we all know someone who is ruined because of them or have died due to using them.

[Trozzle]

Currently drafting a better response now I'm back at work lol, but yes I fully understand opinions on this subject are very touchy thanks to personal experiences which will definitely skew someone's understanding of something; I'm no exception to this on certain topics, property market in a way being one (not that I have experience, which is my issue haha)

[Trozzle]

For the past 2.5 years or so, I've immersed myself within an online forum community aimed entirely at harm reduction resulting from recreational drug use, both illicit and otherwise (like off-label prescription, or simply recreational use of prescription drugs). This community's mission is absolutely about providing accurate information on substances; false or misleading claims are quickly refuted or removed, depending on potential for harm as a result. The community is incredibly sizeable also, over 300,000 registered member accounts, with just a touch over 4000 'active users' while I type this.

The depth of information available is infinitely more than you'll ever hear in any media article on the subject of 'drugs', and short of perusing a ridiculous number of wikipedia articles and pubmed studies, you likely won't find a more concise source of accurate information, right down to the VERY specific pharmacology of the substance. Some of the members of the community, notably some of the senior moderators, have quite extensive experience and academic qualifications in relevant fields; some are ER nurses, some are qualified pharmacists or neurologists, etc. Some are flat out batshit junkies whom provide case point examples first hand lol. Point being is if you want seemingly endless information on the topic of "drugs", this forum will have everything you could possibly want to know and more. And then some f**king more.

Since the beginning of this year I've landed myself a moderator position (aaaaaaand here's the bit I really didn't want to share, for reasons above) within the specific Psychedelic Drugs section. You know, all the supposedly dangerous shit like LSD and mushrooms. The stuff that is guaranteed to melt your mind if you even think about touching it, or so goes the impression I sometimes get from other sources of (mis)information. Funny, my brain still works and I know what reality is....guess all the psilocin I've shoved down my throat to the point I no longer had a sense of self really took a toll on my mind and the community lol.

Bit busy to continue rambling, but I hope the above has given a bit more of an idea of where I've gained what I know now, and hopefully I don't get judged too much on it. Frankly, I don't care to be honest though; there's always somewhere I know that won't happen.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Trozzle

[dyl33]

Well that explains everything thanks

[Trozzle]

Not sure if I should be reading into that reply or not haha....I'm on the back foot after my last post now.

[IcedTea]

Nah Trozzle, looks good - care to share the resource?

People get too caught up in their opinions and anecdotes... then there's the bias. It'll always be difficult to have a rational/logical discussion on an online forum without getting someone up in arms ... sadly.

[Trozzle]

Yes and no lol. If I didn't know any of you beyond an SAU user name, sure I would. However since I do, I'm wary of how your opinions of me will change once you see that side of my life haha

I will state one thing - my life, and my health (in all senses of the word, both physically and mentally/emotionally), took significantly larger toll from owning a skyline than from any and ALL the illicit substances I've put in my body. That ain't a joke either, as amusing as it is haha

[IcedTea]

Who cares ... seems like you're happy with the informed choices you've made.

PM me if you're worried about these people judging you, at least you can be critical ... unlike those who are arguing with their opinions