Illicit Drugs

[IcedTea]

lol...

Apart from insulting him to try and show how right you are, maybe add something constructive or provide some evidence?

And dont even compare cigarette smokers to you guys, i would much rather have 100 cigarette smokers in a dunny than 1 ice addict in a shopping centre.

Don't think anyone here has condoned ice use or said it should be legal, so I don't see where this is coming from.

The reality is that nothing good comes from using. Nothing!

Not true. Look at any decriminalised state/country in the US or Europe. There are also positive and mental benefits which have also been discussed.

The reality is that the drugs themselves have huge negative impacts on society both present and future.
Show us these negative impacts. Once again, using the substances we're actually talking about (not ice...)

The reality is they warp the mind that creates destruction in the world directly and indirectly.

See above

Your last paragraph is lovely dovey and all, but you cant seem to comprehend that prohibition is what is supporting this "industry and lifestyle that creates so much negativity and destruction in this world".

Most of the deaths that you're fixated on have been caused by substances created solely to copy the effects of a proven 'safe' but illegal substance - which is usually not done in an ideal environment. Look at LSD (No deaths ever) and 25i (attempt to copy LSD = deaths), or MDMA and whatever f**ked up chemical they've created to try cheaply copy the effects. Everyone already knows that no one is going to stop taking these substances because that is what you want. Stop being so immature.

Keep fighting for your views (prohibition) and keep the deaths, misinformation and related government profits coming, instead why not try another more logical approach backed by science and education?
It's time for change... we're not stupid, thanks to the internet they, and people like yourself can no longer keep the facts hidden.

[-FIGJAM-]

yeah be on the right side of history racist

[XGTRX]

lol...

Apart from insulting him to try and show how right you are,

Have no issue insulting anyone who promotes or justified the use of destructive substances

maybe add something constructive or provide some evidence?

I did! Go and witness it for yourself as I have suggested. As I said, I witness the crap everyday, don't need to rely on a 10 minute google search to educate myself like you do.

Your last paragraph is lovely dovey and all, but you cant seem to comprehend that prohibition is what is supporting this "industry and lifestyle that creates so much negativity and destruction in this world".

It's time for change... we're not stupid, thanks to the internet they can no longer keep the facts hidden.

You're fighting for the ignorant side of this battle.

So enlighten me on my ignorance

I will give you 30 minutes to google that one.

[Trozzle]

You're not even worth replying to mate. I might get irate and up someone in my arguments, but I still try not to resort to insult beyond calling people ignorant (which I try not to use unless I honestly believe it).

I truly hope you feel justified in your plight. I find it ironic is that I'm the one who (in actual fact RARELY) uses the drugs you're so strongly against, yet I strongly believe I have a firmer grasp on this 'reality' you keep quoting.

Here's some of that reality for you:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/08/is-ecstasy-really-that-dangerous-all-your-questions-answered

I'm actually in the process of confirming the claim regarding 'about a dozen ecstasy deaths per year in Australia' - whether it's related deaths including dehydration, exacerbating existing conditions, negative drug interactions, or worst of all deaths resulting from ingesting something undesired like PMA/PMMA. Hell, even if it's acute overdose of solely MDMA (which would be a f**king ludicrous dose mind you - it's speculated at 10-20mg/kg for humans, or roughly 1200mg for the average male. A 'normal dose' is 150-170mg), that's still roughly 10% of the acute alcohol poisoning deaths in this country each year.

More people are literally drinking enough alcohol to kill themselves than people consuming MDMA and managing the same.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Trozzle

[IcedTea]

Trozzle has been linking insightful articles for pages now, how about reading some of them? You've provided literally nothing.

"I witness the crap everyday, don't need to rely on a 10 minute google search to educate myself like you do."

So let me get this straight, actually searching for facts and wanting to learn is a bad thing? Just because you see your very limited view of the world around yourself doesn't mean that's what is necessarily true when looking at the whole. Sorry, but who were you calling self serving again?

Anecdotes & Opinions > Science.

Yup, makes sense.

[Trozzle]

Oh, but my insightful articles [admittedly] lack sources!! That means his opinion holds more weight and is more correct, than say Professor David Nutt's, whom authored an article I've also linked in this thread. Funnily I actually got called out on that one, and upon clarifying whom David Nutt actually was and showing his qualifications to speak on the subject, nobody spoke of it again and just went back to their opinions.

Yeah, most of this argument will ALWAYS be opinion based. Just be sure to include at least a little bit of, well, anything else.

[IcedTea]

Yeah, most of this argument will ALWAYS be opinion based.

The sad truth

[XGTRX]

So with your amazing clarity and your educated expertise on all things illicit drugs, do you conclude that it is a good thing or a bad thing?

Has it got any positive outcomes to the community or not?

Are its affects on the world positive or negative?

Will the legacy of all its influences in the world be of benefit to future generations or not?

Answer these questions as if your son or daughter was asking you instead of some forum heroics.

Mate, I don't give a shit if I insult you, and I dont really care if you insult me, all I know about you is from what you type here, and at the end of the day all i see is some selfish fkwit that is contributing to a growing issue that is affecting the community I love and going to affect its future generations.

What i also see is a potential that some young kid finding a topic like this on a car forum and getting influences by your stupid, moronic arguments and logic, then reference it to some google search result the somehow you try to use to validate your stupidity and the kid somehow thinks its cool to do drugs.

In the grand scheme of all that is true (meaning what I have witnessed personally through 20 years in the healthcare system) all your pathetic efforts to justify your own usage is so far off the scale of what it means to have a positive influence on society and what it means to be a responsible custodian of the world.

People like you are responsible for the issue, if you weren't using there wouldn't be an industry. But as you all do, you always try to weasel your way out of it and play the 'people are ignorant' card, are the ' I am just a user' card and 'i don't impact on anyone' card, you guys are all the same and you all need help.

Heard it all before, many, many, many times same story over and over. Also I am privileged enough to chat with people on methadone and past users who regret the day they tried the shit and the 30 years thereafter, or the guys with hepC and HIV that are are months away from dying and having to listen and witness a fellow human being in total desperation and at their deepest low and regret, saying if only I could have my time again in a voice that is so pure that it cuts you down.

Mate you have no clue.

As for IcedTea, just go and witness all the crap yourself like I suggested rather than googling mate, after you have seen all first hand then come back and tell me i am wrong and hang shit on me, at least your opinion would be more credible and respected, however i have never met anyone that has witness the crap that i have in the healthcare system or social services that have have a different opinion than what I have.

Don't listen to the data and the google opinions, don't listen to me or anyone else, if your really want to know just go to ED or methadone clinic, or a rehab facility and observe the families, the users, the workers, that will make you more of an expert than anyone here and if you are a user I guarantee you will never use again, or at least you will have some concept of what the fk people who know through experience are talking about.

Well i will wait for your amazing responses Trozzle.

[Trozzle]

Lol f**k responding to that, there's no point. You're still painting everything with one brush, and ignoring my comments that I don't believe in blanket legalisation, and I discount multiple substances in my opinions; notably the ones you have undoubtedly had many terrible experiences with the consequences of their abuse.

There are problem drugs, I won't deny that in the slightest, however you're still placing things like LSD, cannabis, and MDMA in the same bucket as heroin, cocaine, and meth. They're very different in every aspect, bar their legality.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Trozzle

[Gcjosh]

Drugs/alcohol are not the problem, it's the useless selfish dream boats who can't handle it and become dependent/addicted.

No need to argue or have an opinion, that's the bottom line.

Addictive personality will become addicted to just about anything and f**k up any said substance for the majority of people to enjoy..

[Trozzle]

We have a population hooked on sugary shit food lol dopamine

[Birds]

Requiem for a Dream

[Robzilla32]

Go to prison, lose your arm and ass to ass....

Drugs anyone?

[XGTRX]

Lol f**k responding to that, there's no point.

Nah didn't think you would. What a surprise.

[zebra]

LOL XGTRX

I really want to meet you in person, you are without doubt the biggest flog on the internet....and I internet a lot.

You simply cannot compare MDMA to Ice.

It would be like comparing someone who drinks a west coast cooler with dinner to somone who drinks a bottle of vodka for breakfast

[XGTRX]

LOL XGTRX

I really want to meet you in person, you are without doubt the biggest flog on the internet....and I internet a lot.

You simply cannot compare MDMA to Ice.

Suppose if a definition of flog is someone who doesn't tolerate drugs, the crime, and the resultant damage it creates to people and society, I have no problem with that.

Yeah I can tell you internet a lot, maybe you should get off your arse and go to an ED and have a look as I suggested.

Yeah xtc does nothing right? Moron.

[Trozzle]

Nah didn't think you would. What a surprise.

As surprising as it was to see you fail to address pretty much the only outside content in this thread, provided by yours truly. Need I go back and dig up the articles I've shared? You know, particularly the one authored by someone smarter and more educated on this topic than both you and I? Surely you'll have something to say about their claims given the volume of inane shit you've spouted back at me.

What on earth is XTC? Please, if you're going to speak from a position of assumed authority and knowledge, at least use the correct terms to refer to these substances. For the sake of educating the coming generations you care oh so much for. So much so you're happy to censor their life experience.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Trozzle

[IcedTea]

"Don't listen to the data and the google opinions"

It's not opinions, it scientific study and data - you should learn how to search properly. You're pretty much telling people (even the impressionable kids that frequent this board, as you said) 'f**k evidence and logic - I'm right because I've seen this and that happen with this drug, obviously all drugs are bad and those who say otherwise are idiots mmm'kay'.

You still have yet to provide one shred of proof, as said by the others you just constantly mix all drugs together, your arguments hold no merit - seems like you're not even reading our replies.

If you work in healthcare, I respect what you do to help people in need - but as a 'professional' you shouldn't be spreading lies and using your position as an excuse.

To be honest if i were having this conversation with my children I would be giving them the facts - for and against, not the same bullshit our education and propaganda systems have force fed us.

[Trozzle]

"Don't listen to the data and the google opinions"

It's not opinions, it scientific study and data - you should learn how to search properly. You're pretty much telling people (even the impressionable kids that frequent this board, as you said) 'f**k evidence and logic - I'm right because I've seen this and that happen with this drug, obviously all drugs are bad and those who say otherwise are idiots mmm'kay'.

You still have yet to provide one shred of proof, as said by the others you just constantly mix all drugs together, your arguments hold no merit - seems like you're not even reading our replies.

If you work in healthcare, I respect what you do to help people in need - but as a 'professional' you shouldn't be spreading lies and using your position as an excuse.

To be honest if i were having this conversation with my children I would be giving them the facts - for and against, not the same bullshit our education and propaganda systems have force fed us.

This is exactly the issue I have with not only those who continually quote these "professionals" without doing their own research to confirm what they've heard, but also those who are "professionals" themselves yet happily perpetuate the spread of misinformation.

This is exactly why I'm still waiting for Terry to come back to the thread he started, and address his claims. He's a qualified pharmacist (or something pretty much equal to), yet in his first post he strayed from the facts I'd like to think he knows and decided to allow his emotions to dictate his words. That isn't professional, and neither is XGTRX's attitude.

[elChin0]

So how do you plan on stopping people from doing dugs XGTRX? Ice, Alcohol, LSD, Tobacco, Marijuana, Ecstacy, Heroin, whatever it may be? Its impossible.

The only reason that crime/criminals benefit is because there is an underground market for it. If Alcohol and tobacco were still prohibited, they would be profiting off that also. Most likely funding more illegal activity and possibly violent crime.

How do you stop this? You take away as much of the market from them as possible. Regulate, control and tax, just like Alcohol and Tobacco.

That doesn't mean we should legalise all current illegal substances and sell them in the local corner store. No, but for a quick arguments sake lets take Marijuana: Obviously the more research on health effects the better, but at the moment i would not categorise it as any worse than Alcohol or Tobacco and It makes millions-billions of dollars for criminals. Regulation, control and tax of the drug would take away a MASSIVE source of profit for these criminal organisations, which in turn would lessen their power.

On the other hand, we have hard drugs like Ice or Heroin. I have no experience with these personally but i would say that these are NOT something that can be regulated or controlled (some might not agree?) as the health risks are far too great. In this case i believe decriminalisation would be the best course of action at the very least. Addicts need to be HELPED not to be thrown in jail. I dont know how much funding there is for methodone/rehab clinics but i think the main focus should be on helping these people. At the end of the day more successful rehabilitation means less people going back and throwing their money at drug dealers. Once again, less money = less power/crime.

Anyway those are my thoughts, curious to hear more of what others think