Serious questions. How to drive faster? and What car to get?

[Edge]

Here is a bit of my rant from the postwhore NSW thread, thought I should move it here as it is a little more serious...

It is rumoured a GTR is coming in 2007, anybody know if this is true? Wonder what its going to be like.

What should my next car be then? Whats that replacement/remake coming out for the RX7? Rotary seems nice too, whats the deal with rotary? I thought they had lower torque?

Shouldn't it be possible to corner faster with FWD doing a drift at ultra high speed so that with weight shift to the front you get more traction for keeping the car pulling in the right direction. Note I wouldn't want to break front wheel traction because I want to get the max power to the ground.

The reason I ask is that there is this right angled corner I take that I can do 90kph while holding the line. I am wondering whether fwd would hold the line and manage to deliver more power to the road?

Rear wheel drive manages to move weight onto the rear wheels while going through turn while still giving plenty of grip to front wheels, however its hard to get the power down through the rear wheels, rear still breaks traction too easily causing oversteer. I've got a whiteline handling kit installed with standard springs. I'm not sure if suspension can make up for it, since it may just be the simple FR weight distribution of the GTST R33 4 dr. Perhaps I should just drop a bag of cement in the boot.

If I set the rear swaybar softer it doesn't help as it just causes roll. Perhaps its my rear springs or shocks, or should I be getting a sub frame brace?

basically I feel as if I should be able to get more power to the rear wheels before it loses rear traction with only moderate power while in a turn.

When it loses traction I can't get enough power down to the road to accelerate forward.

Perhaps I just need bigger rear wheels?

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After that rant,

I came to the conclusion that all I need is bigger rubber on the rear. Cause it isn't weight transfer causing the loss of traction.

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Do bigger radius tyres give better cornering if they are actually bigger in circumference? Or is this just about the quality of the tarmac? Or does it smooth out response to the throttle inputs?

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Still wondering whether FWD is better. Wondering about rotary. And whether GTR is worth getting.

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Should I move this to the art of drift thread?

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What is the basic cause of the oversteer in the R33 GTST design?

Why does it start to oversteer so much so early, is it basically the FR design? Is it that I can't get enough weight onto the rear wheels? Would bigger wheels = better traction, = more weight shift to rear = more traction for more power?

Which is why I come back full circle to question of FWD?

Damn but seems like FWD should go slower when I think of it one way but when I think of it another way it seems it should go faster. So confusing.

Weight shift onto the front of the car when turning while trying to deliver power does seem very dangerous. But would it go faster? So would an RX7 be faster in drift cornering? Does anyone know? Has anyone tested this theory on a race track?

Looks like if you go so fast that you lose rear traction you would go slower, however when trying to get around a corner that you are going so fast that there is loss of sideways traction caused by pure centrifugal force. This is what I am interested in.

The RX7 going into corner at 130 under brakes then throw rear traction by pull e-brake - hold weight shift to front. Then accelerate through the corner. With wheels power spinning would not have enough traction to get max speed.

So this rant leads me to believe I should either stick with RWD or get a 4WD car.

But just how light is the RX7? Perhaps the front is heavy and the rear is extra light. This would mean that it has a very high natural weight shift to the front. And to reduce tracking to the outside of the corner loss of rear wheel traction may work to make the car track after the front wheels more effectively?

If I stick to RWD car then I believe I may just need some fatter rubber on the rear, and finally, I may just have to put a bag of cement, so to speak in the boot.

Over to you.

[Duncan]

ummmm

what was the question again :confused:

[Sydneykid]

How to fix the handling on your R33 GTST 4 door, well it's all about making sure the maximum amount of tyre is in contact with the road at all times. This is the weak link in Skyline suspension (and most other cars for that matter). They move the contact patch of the tyre around due to the HICAS and camber change and the standard shocks are not very sophisticated in their valving.

#1 Remove HICAS

#2 Fix suspension geometry (adj camber and caster at the front and adj camber at the rear)

#3 Standard springs are OK

#4 Upgrade to decent shocks, Konis or Bilsteins or if you have larger budget, Ohlins

#5 Have LSD checked, if stuffed go for 1.5 way plate style LSD (Nismo, ATS, Cusco)

#6 Front strut brace

Stick a set of decent tyres on and the RX7 won't see which way you went.

Moving on to front wheel drive, the problem is the front tyres have to handle a large proportion of the braking, all of the steering, carry 60+% of the total weight and do all of the power transfer to the road. So it might go round that corner really fast once or twice, but not so when the front tyres over heat. This is always the problem with our front wheel drive race cars, the front tyres go away.

Hope that helps

[Edge]

Thankyou, that was just what I was looking for,

and thanks for the FWD explanation.

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Full whiteline handling kit is installed including rear camber and adjusted to whiteline specs, though using -1.0 camber on rear.

Using standard springs.

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So first put a HICAS lock kit on. What brand kit is best?

Then upgrade my shocks. What shock rate is advisable? Is this a matter for testing using adjustable shocks or is there a recommended rate? I know whiteline recommend Bilsteins unless they have their new Group 4 shocks out for the R33 which I haven't checked yet. Do you think these would be the go, since whiteline say they test everything? So Ohlins are the best? Which one do I order? Adjustable or fixed rate? If get adjustable how would you know what rate to set them at?

The Bilsteins are said to squish the springs about 20% getting rid of some of the early soft part of the variable rate spring. Seems this a good thing?

Is a $90 justjap strut brace ok or is the oem GTR strut brace better?

Still wondering is 225/50/R16 rubber all round any good on 16"x7.5" rims?

Should I get fatter tyres/rims for the rear?

Thanks again.

[Sydneykid]

Thankyou, that was just what I was looking for,

and thanks for the FWD explanation.

----

Full whiteline handling kit is installed including rear camber and adjusted to whiteline specs, though using -1.0 camber on rear.

Using standard springs.

----

So first put a HICAS lock kit on. What brand kit is best?

Then upgrade my shocks. What shock rate is advisable? Is this a matter for testing using adjustable shocks or is there a recommended rate? I know whiteline recommend Bilsteins unless they have their new Group 4 shocks out for the R33 which I haven't checked yet. Do you think these would be the go, since whiteline say they test everything? So Ohlins are the best? Which one do I order? Adjustable or fixed rate? If get adjustable how would you know what rate to set them at?

The Bilsteins are said to squish the springs about 20% getting rid of some of the early soft part of the variable rate spring. Seems this a good thing?

Is a $90 justjap strut brace ok or is the oem GTR strut brace better?

Still wondering is 225/50/R16 rubber all round any good on 16"x7.5" rims?

Should I get fatter tyres/rims for the rear?

Thanks again.

Some responses not in any order;

Shocks in order of my personal preference;

1. Whiteline Group 4

2. Ohlins adjustable (single adjuster)

3. Koni Sport (single adjuster)

4. Bilstein (no adjustment)

Don't be put off by the no adjustemtn on the Bilsteins, they have a sophisticated velocity sensitive valve stack. This means they suite a wide range of spring rates without having ot adjust them. They are good for people who don't want (or know) how to tune damper rates.

225/60 OK on 7.5", same size all round is OK.

Any strut brace is better than none, Whiteline have them if you want to stick with the same brand. They are also working on a HICAS replacement kit, should be ready soon.

Bilsteins "squish springs" :bs!:

Hope that helps some more