Bills 33 Gtst Streeter/track Car

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

12 hours ago, admS15 said:

Just about ready for a track day again but for some reason the driver can't find any motivation. 

Watch Drive to Survive on Netflix, somehow that gets me motivated to race lol..

[No Crust Racing]

I follow F1 and watched a few eps of DTS, was not impressed at the manufactured drama/bs. 

It has brought a lot of new fans in though so that's cool

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I love the salacious drama, even my wife watches it here and there with me and said it's wild LOL.

[admS15]

I think my lack of motivation partly comes from being lazy and CBF prepping properly and putting the effort in for a track day. As you guys know, you get out about as much as you put in. If I go, I don't want to be half arsed.

Will also need new semis, reinstall cage, race seat, track pads and maybe replace rotors too. I'm tired just thinking about it, lol. 

The other part that worries me, is the possibility of killing the engine. It's not getting any younger and it's done quite a bit of track duties over the years. $800 dollar RB's are ancient history. I guess if it happens, 7-10K will hopefully get me a refreshed forged bottom end. Oh well, suppose I'll just have to YOLO it.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Turn down the boost a little, send its mum

[admS15]

Good point but where's the fun in that, lol.

Out of curiosity, do you remember what the bearings in your first motor looked liked when it let go? 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

44 minutes ago, admS15 said:

Good point but where's the fun in that, lol.

Out of curiosity, do you remember what the bearings in your first motor looked liked when it let go? 

I never bothered take off to check, I saw damage on the head, block scoring and just launched the motor.

The cam caps were scored though, looked like metal bits went through the motor, when I drained the oil it looked like glitter lol.

[admS15]

On 22/03/2023 at 10:40 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

I never bothered take off to check, I saw damage on the head, block scoring and just launched the motor.

The cam caps were scored though, looked like metal bits went through the motor, when I drained the oil it looked like glitter lol.

Fair enough, if I saw that I wouldn't of went any further either. 

[No Crust Racing]

That's fair, lots of work to track prep it, risk of breaking it, all time and money and you're covering both of those so it's easy for us to sit back and say go for it son! 

If you do go, knowing the engine is older, just be kinder to it I guess. Nice gradual warm up, 1 hot lap maybe 2 max, cool down lap etc. Just give the engine a chance to manage thermal loads and oil return to the sump. 


 

[soviet_merlin]

1 hour ago, ActionDan said:

If you do go, knowing the engine is older, just be kinder to it I guess. Nice gradual warm up, 1 hot lap maybe 2 max, cool down lap etc. Just give the engine a chance to manage thermal loads and oil return to the sump.

Maybe a stupid question, but do people stick to just 3-4 laps like that in a session or repeat it? For example in a 15 minute session there would be time for more than 3-4 laps.

Do you then do something like

warmup, hot lap, cool down lap, hot lap, cool down lap and so on?

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

59 minutes ago, soviet_merlin said:

Maybe a stupid question, but do people stick to just 3-4 laps like that in a session or repeat it? For example in a 15 minute session there would be time for more than 3-4 laps.

Do you then do something like

warmup, hot lap, cool down lap, hot lap, cool down lap and so on?

Since you'll be heading out to All Shit Box Day, I mean All Jap Day and doing the sprint sessions I suggest this during the 15 minute window

• Come onto the track, use this time to reacquaint yourself with the lap, then on the T17 start to push
• Do 2x hot laps
• 1x cool down
• 1x hot lap
• 1x cool down
• Session over

 

[No Crust Racing]

I'm with Johnny and yes I used to do that process often because my tyres could not handle more than 2hot laps to start then 1 ever other lap because I drive like shit and I am brutal on the gear. 

As I was nearing the end of my last season and worrying about the stock CA surviving so I could win my class I was also dropping max RPM, down to like 6500 and only doing sometimes 2 hot laps in a session as the season old tyres were giving up, and yet I kept going faster every track day so you don't gotta rev/drive/turn in hard to set a good time. 

Especially when you're as average a driver as all of us will be. 

[Duncan]

With reasonable brakes, tyres and cooling, you should be able to go 100% for a 20minute session (well, 1 warm up lap first)

Just watch out for any of them having an issue:

-Coolant temp gauge and oil temp/oil pressure

-Tyres loosing grip - increased understeer in long corners right hand (clockwise track) or left hand (anti clockwise track) 

-Brakes - oh shit moment when you press them, or sometimes there is a warning via smell or longer pedal first

[No Crust Racing]

I've only had limited experience with budget R comps/good street tyres (NankangAR1/Federal RSR etc) but neither would come close to a full 20min session at the level of push required to get a PB for my car i.e. 100%

Maybe bigger dollar tyres will give better consistency, but I can't think of many affordable tyres that are going to give top tier PB level grip for 20mins of 100% push unless your car is heavily over tyred for the power/suspension capability etc. 

I would go as far as to say if your tyres can last that long you are not driving anywhere near as hard as the car can handle. 

Time attack is called 1 perfect lap for a reason. 



 

[Kinkstaah]

15 minutes ago, Duncan said:

With reasonable brakes, tyres and cooling, you should be able to go 100% for a 20minute session

"Reasonable brakes, tyres and cooling" to this extent REQUIRES:

Brakes: Race pads/upgraded/full BBK.
Tyres: R Comps, the best street tyres will be screaming for mercy before this on a track with many bends.
Cooling: 25+ row oil cooler, a radiator sent from the gods/ducting.
Bonus: Accusump

Without any of these the car will very much be a 1-2 laps (at most) before your oil is 150C+, brakes die, engine overheats. There is a reason:
 

Quote

Come onto the track, use this time to reacquaint yourself with the lap, then on the T17 start to push

• Do 2x hot laps
• 1x cool down
• 1x hot lap
• 1x cool down
• Session over

Is a thing.

It takes LOT$ of "Reasonable brakes, tyres, and cooling" to do 30 minute flat out session all day.

[No Crust Racing]

1 hour ago, soviet_merlin said:

Maybe a stupid question, but do people stick to just 3-4 laps like that in a session or repeat it? For example in a 15 minute session there would be time for more than 3-4 laps.

Do you then do something like

warmup, hot lap, cool down lap, hot lap, cool down lap and so on?

No stupid questions and yes in my experience at club level lots of people follow this pattern which is why watching your mirrors is very important and considered poor track etiquette if you fail to do so. 

[Duncan]

Of those, only good tyres are expensive, and if you are going to the track on street tyres (even good ones) you are missing most of the fun.

My old 33 gtst street car did about a billion laps in 20min sessions with:

- proper track tyres (these days I'd use hankook Z221)

-bendix ultimate pads, standard disc, calipers

-standard rad, no oil cooler etc

With under 200rwkw it was good for 1.09s at Wakefield, all day every day

I think what many posters above did is double or triple the factory power (or chuck a ls in), then put on road tyres and expect track happiness. Leave it turned down and enjoy the track instead!

 

[No Crust Racing]

So you were over tyred for the power as I said above. 

A mate with an R33 and 300+rwkw on Z221s cannot get a full 20mins session from them, but my guess is he would've been doing faster than 1:09 at Wakefield, it's all relative. 

Nothing wrong with over tyring the car, but the reality is most people are running Z221/equivalent advans, and in my club, used slicks also, and will still cook the tyre in 20mins because the cars are far more powerful and suspension far more capable than it used to be allowing us all to go much faster. 

Same goes for any "issue". I could go a full 20mins and not see oil temps above 110, but the car had under 200kw, and very decent/ducted oil cooler setup. You can apply the same approach to any aspect of the car and when you do all of them you can go run 20mins flat out. They call those GT3 cars I think

Anyway, agree to disagree, but I think Johnny's pattern of hot/cool laps is fun for lots of club level cars. 
 

Edited March 22, 2023 by ActionDan

[Kinkstaah]

In my case, the RB block became a consumable track day item more or less. The LS is far cheaper.

Oil temps skyrocket under high throttle. I would suspect your 33GTST street car was sitting at 150C for 19 of those 20 minute sessions without an oil cooler. That said, perhaps 150C oil temperature isn't actually as bad for everything as things may make it seem.

Leaving it tuned down and enjoying the track/driving it is VERY sage advice. Also generally "Track the car, and see what limits you first, then upgrade _that_" is the upgrade path of the smart person.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Yeah my current weakest link are the tyres, if I change to proper semi slicks I "might" be able to do 3~5 hot laps, but something else might give instead LOL (this is for the GP Circuit at SMSP)

Hence somewhat I'm happy to just run street tyres.

Back in the Wakefield days, running Nitto NT01 I was able to do 5~8 hot laps at a time, the only thing that gave up was the brakes OR the motor would push coolant (when I had a stock motor pushing 372kW lol).