Bills 33 Gtst Streeter/track Car

[admS15]

On 03/11/2023 at 8:37 PM, Duncan said:

You need to ask the year, not the month, with amayama these days

Hahaha, I know. I would've ordered everything from partsouq which is the go to these days but they didn't have stock of the exh valves. At least all the valves are being supplied now.

[admS15]

Did a bit of mucking around today and did an experiment with one of the rods from the exploded engine. The idea was to see if the bore of the big end would change or go out of round when pressing out and in rod bolts. 

I borrowed measuring tools from the machine shop at work. The bore was measured and then  proceeded to press (bash) out the rod bolts. They where then turned around and pressed (bashed) back in. Was not easy and had to resort to using the nuts to screw in the last 15-20mm once there was enough thread to get the cap on and start the nuts. They pulled in easily at that point. Very dodgy I know but the point was to see if the geometry would change with hamfisting.

The conclusion of my back yard bro science experiment was that nothing changed. Mr hammer didn't make an impact, lol. So I figure if you can treat them like that and they're still round, then pressing them in and out properly should be fine and won't need resizing.The bore specs for an O grade Nissan rod are between 51.000mm and 51.007mm. The measurement before and after copping a hammering where the same and around 51.003 so in spec, not bad for 30 year rods. 

 

After doing all that, I'm thinking I won't be happy with just new OEM bolts and considering getting some cheap forged rods. I'd never ever thought I would consider maxpeeding rods but here we are. Apparently the quality is pretty good and about as good as the spool h beams. 

I was told of a guy who is running them in an otherwise stock engine in a drift car that gets absolutely belted, limiter bashed and has been for years without issue. I believe one of our own here at SAU @hardsteppa has them in his engine and did a review saying he was quite happy with them. Hopefully he's still around and can let us know if there still going strong.

They certainly do look good, come with arp 2000 bolts so solve that problem and should be better than the factory rods. The price is also right, with a current eBay offer they can be had for around $550 delivered. They fit the moto of this build.

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

 

I think I'm sold on them

[admS15]

Also started on cleaning up the crank today. Managed to polish up all the rod journals, they came up pretty good. I watched a few videos on YouTube where they used some lubed up Emery paper wrapped around the journal and then a shoestring wrapped around the paper a couple of times. You then use a sea saw type action where 1 string is pulled up and the other down. The paper then goes in a circular motion and the lace keeps pressure around the whole surface of the journal. 

I went through the process using 400, 800 and then 1500 grit paper followed by metal polish. It doesn't take much time, a minute or so with each grade. Rod journals are looking pretty nice now.

 

Before

 

 

After

 

 

 

 

 

And the process

 

 

 

Pretty happy with them, will do the mains next opportunity I get.

Eagle eyes will notice the clearances for the mains written on the pan gasket area of the block. So the front clearance is the largest and has upper main bearing wear. I was telling this to someone yesterday, his reply was that's most probably caused by an overtightened timing belt. That makes a lot of sense, it's the only bearing with upper wear.

[GTSBoy]

The Maxspeedingrods rods will be fine for your build.

[Komdotkom]

Yeah, Maxspeeding rods will be fine but you'll have to check the lengths and big / small ends for size.

[admS15]

I pulled the trigger on them, they should be here by the end of next week. They will be thoroughly scrutinised. Pistons will remain stock for now. That may change if I find a bargain somewhere.

[hardsteppa]

16 hours ago, Komdotkom said:

Yeah, Maxspeeding rods will be fine but you'll have to check the lengths and big / small ends for size.

as you should do with any rods you buy.

Yeah mate yeah, still around, just don't do much with the Skyline now as it's 'fully done" and I rarely drive it. Been busy with "Operation Thunder"......no wait... "Project - White Lightning"...yes that's better. A Barina, yeah that's right, Barina, RS. Little turbo nugget daily driver. It's fun driving something that's so sh1t lol but yet still so enjoyable, and a few (ok more than a few) mods have transformed it into something that actually goes pretty well.

When I do drive the R33 though it gets hammered hard every time. Posted an update on the rods in my build thread - they've been faultless. Hope you have the same result with them.

For pistons on a budget I used Ross pistons - have also been faultless.

[admS15]

On 05/11/2023 at 1:38 PM, hardsteppa said:

as you should do with any rods you buy.

Yeah mate yeah, still around, just don't do much with the Skyline now as it's 'fully done" and I rarely drive it. Been busy with "Operation Thunder"......no wait... "Project - White Lightning"...yes that's better. A Barina, yeah that's right, Barina, RS. Little turbo nugget daily driver. It's fun driving something that's so sh1t lol but yet still so enjoyable, and a few (ok more than a few) mods have transformed it into something that actually goes pretty well.

When I do drive the R33 though it gets hammered hard every time. Posted an update on the rods in my build thread - they've been faultless. Hope you have the same result with them.

For pistons on a budget I used Ross pistons - have also been faultless.

Thanks for the response, good to know there's been no issues. There's no such thing as budget pistons anymore. Ross are $1700 now. I think Mahle are the cheapest at around $1500. 

Barina hey, I know a British dude here in vic who's crazy about them and building one ATM. Zippy little things and run on the smell of an oily rag. Compared to a skyline anyway.

[admS15]

Finished polishing up the mains on the crank today. They where pretty good so just used metal polish. Came up nice. Measured up all the journals with a micrometre. All within spec, the mains where toward the lower end but still within. Standard size bearings should be fine. I will verify clearances with plastigauge once fitted. Surprisingly the Nissan fsm lists plastigauge as one of the methods of checking clearances. If it's good enough for Mr Nissan it's good enough for me. 

 

This is the worn upper main bearing at the front that is most probably worn from overtightened timing belt.

 

Next, I'm going to try a bit of home honing. Going to have a go on the scrap block and see if I can produce an acceptable cross hatch. If not will leave to a pro.

[Komdotkom]

Just leave it to a pro mate, the quality of the hone is critical to ring seal and while they can look fine there's a lot more to it than that. 

https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10585

[No Crust Racing]

No harm in trying the hone on the scrap block, common issue is getting the angle too shallow, you need to be moving up and down at a fairly reasonable rate from what I see. 

Re the shoe laced journals, did you measure them repeatedly in a heap of spots after? left side, right side, middle, rotating around 45 degrees each time etc etc? You wanna check for proper roundness and no taper as that shoe lace doesn't look wide enough to ensure even pressure across the entire journal surface at all times. 

Plastiguage is fine for mains to confirm, painful for big ends, but you already have the mic and the bore gauges so you can just do it as you would the big ends and get an exact number. 

[admS15]

On 06/11/2023 at 7:06 AM, No Crust Racing said:

No harm in trying the hone on the scrap block, common issue is getting the angle too shallow, you need to be moving up and down at a fairly reasonable rate from what I see. 

Re the shoe laced journals, did you measure them repeatedly in a heap of spots after? left side, right side, middle, rotating around 45 degrees each time etc etc? You wanna check for proper roundness and no taper as that shoe lace doesn't look wide enough to ensure even pressure across the entire journal surface at all times. 

Plastiguage is fine for mains to confirm, painful for big ends, but you already have the mic and the bore gauges so you can just do it as you would the big ends and get an exact number. 

Yes I did measure at various angles. The shoelace thing was done with bugger all pressure and very little with the rougher 400 grit. The amount removed would've been 1/10th of stuff all. I've also measured it against the untouched scrap crank and the difference is almost unnoticeable. 

On 06/11/2023 at 6:46 AM, Komdotkom said:

Just leave it to a pro mate, the quality of the hone is critical to ring seal and while they can look fine there's a lot more to it than that. 

https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10585

Thanks for that link, going to try some 220 grit stones on the scrap block a bit later and see what happens.

[admS15]

Tried honing the scrap block using one of those three arm stone hones. The first 2 cylinders didn't go so well. The cross hatch just wasn't happening, too horizontal. The drill I was using was too fast. Switched over to my trusty cordless on slow speed and varied the technique. Got good cross hatch but now too steep an angle, around 60° The factory Nissan looks like closer to 40° Technique was adjusted again and got something pretty close. The key was slow drill speed and fast up and down strokes and plenty of lube.  Got fairly confident and decided to do the good block. Went pretty good, went bit by bit trying to only take off the minimum required to deglaze the bores and create the cross hatch.

It's pretty hard to get an image that can show the cross hatch clearly, don't know if it was the sun, quality of camera but I only managed to get 2 pics that are even viewable and don't do the cross hatch justice. 

So, that's done. I'm balls deep now. Got to order some more parts and move on to cleaning everything. 

[admS15]

On 28/09/2023 at 7:30 AM, No Crust Racing said:

Sorry to see that mate, hope the repair goes well, are you  DIYing it? 


 

 

On 28/09/2023 at 9:14 AM, admS15 said:

 

Thanks Dan. Engine building an RB is not something I think I can do to the level required. So the only DIY will be limited to installing an engine or properly repaired head on a good block. 

At some point I did a U turn on this and this has almost become a full diy as most have noticed. It is for now anyway, we'll see what the future holds.

[admS15]

On 03/11/2023 at 8:37 PM, Duncan said:

You need to ask the year, not the month, with amayama these days

They must have heard you and want to prove you wrong, I received a notification from them today that my order would be shipped from their warehouse, half an hour later auspost notified me my package will be delivered in the next few days. Let's see.

[admS15]

Was stuffing around cleaning the pistons today. What a tedious shitty job, another reason a shop wouldn't want to reuse old crusty pistons.

Spent around an hour and a half giving them a bath in a cocktail of mineral turpse and degreaser. Cleaned the ring grooves out using a couple sacrificed rb rings and used some Scotch Brite. They still don't look pretty but they're clean and passed inspection. 

I was going to pick the best 6 out of the 11 I have but since these are all ok, I'll just put them back exactly where they came from, with their associated pins. I even marked which direction the pin was in originally so it can go back the same way. I'm anil about stuff like that, I even try to make sure that all reused bolts go back to their original homes. probably makes no difference but it's something I've gotten into the habit of doing over the years.

Will have to go down to the Nissan stealership and pick up some piston circlips. Surprisingly they have stock and only $2.35 each which is the same as nengun. I wish all their prices where like that.

Anyway, old pistons which still look old.

 

 

 

 

So I guess now that all the valves and rods are arriving this week, I hopefully will be able to drop them at the shop next week. No idea how long the turnaround will be. Still need to sort something out for valve guides. Will probably go to a local supplier here, they have various listings for RB, should be able to pick the correct ones when I have the valves in hand.

[No Crust Racing]

11 hours ago, admS15 said:

 

At some point I did a U turn on this and this has almost become a full diy as most have noticed. It is for now anyway, we'll see what the future holds.

Yes we kinda realised.... 

The only way to learn how to build an engine is do it, I wish I had started with an RB/Barra and not the Volvo 5cyl though lol

[admS15]

On 08/11/2023 at 6:11 AM, No Crust Racing said:

Yes we kinda realised.... 

The only way to learn how to build an engine is do it, I wish I had started with an RB/Barra and not the Volvo 5cyl though lol

I've built engines before but nothing on this scale or this involved, mostly single cylinder 2 stroke bike engines, 1 V2 and a couple of rotaries. Yeah the RB is definitely less technical than the ovlov 5 pot.

The thing scaring me the most is making sure everything is clean before assembly. The focus right now is on that sort of stuff. Crank drilling/grub screwing, block cleaning. Investigating whether I can drill the plugs and cut threads for grub screws myself or even better have a chat to the machinist at work and see if he can do it for me.

[No Crust Racing]

It shouldn't be too bad given it didn't spin a bearing.

I'm not familiar with the RB crank, does it have grub screws/ball bearings you can remove to clean the galleries. 

This was a concern for me as the donor 5 pot had spun like every big end from being started repeatedly before I got it. 

[admS15]

There is plugs fitted and snapped off from the factory. They need to be drilled out, tapped for grub screws. Would of been nice if Mr Nissan did that for us, unfortunately it's not the case.

I'm concerned about dried up oily crud sitting behind the plugs waiting to get pushed out into the nice new bearings. This motor did sit for like a decade. In saying that it did look reasonably clean inside and the crank was still covered in a film of oil but I'd rather know that it's 100% clean than just hoping.

Machinist has taken the rest of the week off, will have to wait till next week to bother him.