Innovate Vs Aem - Wideband Kits?

[TiTAN]

i have had both the 2j1 and the 2j2, the 2j2 was on an evo for 2 years before i sold the car, i can only assume its still in there, the 2j1 is in its 3rd car and has just needed the sensor replaced a couple of times, but a new sensor is only $100.

it does your narrow band simulated output too, i was using it in my skyline as well as the wideband feed into the ecu.

http://wbo2.com/2j/default.htm

[GTRPSI]

thats a cool little item.

it doesnt seem to be able to display 2 things at once though. would be nice to have AFR dots on the outside and boost reading number in the middle (with alarms active for both).

If you have to run a vacuum line to it to get good logging, you might as well use it to replace your boost gauge... but then you cant read your AFRs without hooking it up to a laptop and changing it.

I currently have it setup to show AF on the outside bar graph and boost on the center digital readout.

You can select it the other way around if you like, you can also select to use both displays to show 1 function, i did this while tuning the Haltech with a basic Map, was better to see the AF ratio in both displays while testing (being supercharged boost is pretty linear) , then when i got home i plugged in the lappy and reset the unit to show AF on the outside and boost on the LED center display.

Warning events are tabulated as air fuel VS boost, if your off on either you will be outside of your set parameters and trigger a event.

Connecting a RPM signal input also assists in revs against AF and boost for the 2 hours of data logging.

[Leroy Peterson]

Oh that's awesome. I might get that gauge and run 4.9 Bosch wideband. Thanks for the info.

[DCIEVE]

I've used innovate for a long time - ok performing kit that's pretty fragile. Wideband kit stopped outputting 0-5v recently now the tc4`s are reading erratically. Tech support is non existent.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I've found the AEM UEGO units are reliable, have installed them into several cars and still working. Just one down side is they can only output one signal, not a massive issue if you've got a modern ECU that accepts 0 to 5V then you can simply parallel that signal for other things.

[GTRPSI]

I've found the AEM UEGO units are reliable, have installed them into several cars and still working. Just one down side is they can only output one signal, not a massive issue if you've got a modern ECU that accepts 0 to 5V then you can simply parallel that signal for other things.

The fail safes have 3 outputs, a AFR output, a MAP output and a Failsafe or Shift warning light output.

In our case we just connected the wideband output to the haltech for A/F, we didnt run the MAP output because we are using Haltechs on-board MAP sensor and we didnt need the failsafe as Haltch already has all that on board.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

The fail safes have 3 outputs, a AFR output, a MAP output and a Failsafe or Shift warning light output.

In our case we just connected the wideband output to the haltech for A/F, we didnt run the MAP output because we are using Haltechs on-board MAP sensor and we didnt need the failsafe as Haltch already has all that on board.

yeah those gauges are good too!

but if your haltech does everything, then there's no real need for that fancy gauge

[GTRPSI]

Ah... .nothing beats keeping an eyeball on things while driving.

Being supercharged boost levels keep me informed if the blower belt is slipping.

Having a fail safe on the gauge means i get a visual warning before the haltech needs to step in, simply setup the parameters tighter than in the Haltech.

[XGTRX]

I have an Innovate Scg1 no issue, boost control and boost cut by AFR is great. I think a few things may contribute to shortened sensor life, first is position, second is e85 and condensation, and third is ignition on and engine not running that will burn out the sensor pretty quickly.

[mr skidz]

I found the innovate wideband to be insanely fast reacting which made easy work of tuning acceleration pump values on my old power fc.

Also found my AFR'S very consistent.

Edited December 5, 2015 by mr skidz

[admS15]

Bumping this up. It's been 2 years since I started using the innovate mtxl. It has been reliable until now, it started showing error e8 recently which can be either sensor or controller. To work out what it was, I went to the wreckers and pulled a couple sensors from early ve Commodores. One was dead and the other worked for about 5 mins. At this point I still wasn't sure what the issue was. I then worked out that my wife's 2012 focus uses the same 4.9 WB sensor and the car only has 40k km on it. I pulled that out and tried it and all back to normal. So it's just a sensor problem. A week or two ago I had forgot the ignition on for around 20 mins without the engine running, im pretty sure that must have fried the sensor (as hadouken warned earlier in this thread). The mtxl is obviously fussy with sensors and if it doesn't like it, it will display an error instead of giving bogus readings.

 

So in summary the later mtxl with 4.9 sensor is pretty good , two years of daily use, around 25k km and around 10 track days till a sensor failure. I'd call that a fair amount of use and a reliable unit. I reckon if I didn't forget the ignition on the other week it still would have been going.

 

 

Also for future reference 4.9 LSU sensors for ve Commodores 06-09, ford focus lw 2012-2015 and vw tiguan 2010 onward amongst others are compatible with most WB controllers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Leroy Peterson]

Thanks for the heads up.

Still a pain in the ass with the ignition thing. I leave it on to check the ECU parameters with the laptop...

[Sub Boy32]

The biggest issues with stuffing sensors is either having them unplugged from the controller but still in the exhaust or sitting there with the ignition on without the engine running......better controllers have an rpm signal input like the Link or Motec units.

Have a read of this to make your sensors last a bit longer:

http://www.nzefi.com/bosch-lsu-wide-band-airfuel-ratio-lambda-sensors-fail-often-aftermarket-performance-applications/

[GeeDog]

1 hour ago, Sub Boy32 said:

Have a read of this to make your sensors last a bit longer:

http://www.nzefi.com/bosch-lsu-wide-band-airfuel-ratio-lambda-sensors-fail-often-aftermarket-performance-applications/

Thanks for linking that article - very interesting read.

[admS15]

I have been thinking of rewiring the controller to use the fuel pump signal to trigger the relay for it to turn on. That way if the ignition is on with the engine not running, it will turn off after a few secs. Anyone see an issue with this.

[Ben C34]

48 minutes ago, admS15 said:

I have been thinking of rewiring the controller to use the fuel pump signal to trigger the relay for it to turn on. That way if the ignition is on with the engine not running, it will turn off after a few secs. Anyone see an issue with this.

That is smart.

I am going to do the same thing now.

[MagicMikeZ32]

On 23/07/2017 at 11:26 AM, admS15 said:

I have been thinking of rewiring the controller to use the fuel pump signal to trigger the relay for it to turn on. That way if the ignition is on with the engine not running, it will turn off after a few secs. Anyone see an issue with this.

I have my AEM widebands wired up like this. Works well.

[baron_von_bootsector]

Might be a little late to the party but I have had issues with several innovate kits and reliability of the Bosch sensors in particular. I was pointed in the direction of the AFX / AFR500v2 devices that use an NTK sensor as these seem to stand up to (non OEM) abuse better than the Bosch LSU series but do carry a bit of a premium compared to the Bosch units.

The AFR500v2 I have has been a great unit so far and has not required the same attention / recalibration / replacement that the two innovates I have had previously on the car did. The unit can use different varieties of NTK sensors or an LSU 4.9 sensor depending on what you desire but the manufacturer seems to recommend the NTK units for their durability & accuracy.

 

[Kinks]

I had an Innovate LC-2 and 4.2 sensor in my car for about a year before it started acting up.  Two symptoms were

1. Erratic AFR readings (jumping randomly between 10:1 and 20:1 when at stable cruise)
2. Sensor would stick in warm-up state and never show valid readings

I went through several emails with Innovate tech support which were frustrating.  They basically blamed everything they could about my setup and when I proved I was operating it within its specifications they simply replied with "RMA it and our fee starts from $45".  Since it was out of warranty I left it alone for ages, recently I tried replacing the sensor with a 4.9 unit and that worked for about a week before it went back to its old tricks - same as above.

When they work they're great but seeing bogus readings on something as important as an AFR gauge is an immediate deal-breaker for me.  I've pulled it out and it's going in the bin.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I've found the LC range complete garbage and will either blow sensors or the controller will just die. Most of those cars that were originally fitted with LC-2 have now been replaced with AEM UEGO gauges.

The MTX-L (when they first came out) same deal, would first destroy sensors then give you an E9 error then eventually the gauge stops working even with new sensors. However I was able to get a new gauge through warranty and so far it's been ok (when the car was running). 

The only reason I've stuck with innovate is because of serial out which integrates with my Adaptronic.