GTRS turbo or PFC??? advice wanted

[bbenny]

Hey guys,

Im tossing up between getting a brand new GTRS turbo or a Power FC for my RB20.

so far im making about 225rwkw with a 2530 turbo, but i want to make closer to the 250rwkw mark and have read nothing but great reports about the GTRS turbo.

I know the PFC wont get me that sort of power, but i would expect to maybe see an extra 10rwkw and better power curve.

what should i expect to see with the GTRS turbo? considering the 2530 is rated at 320ps and the GTRS rated at 400ps.

please let me know what you think.

In the end either option will cost me roughly the same amount considering i can sell a 2530 turbo if i upgrade to GTRS.

cheers

Ben.

[Merli]

What ECU are you running at the moment?

[Roy]

GT-RS means new ECU anyway.

Me thinks stretch the legs of the 2530 with a PFc and a good tune before you go another turbo...also GT-RS will mean new injectors, and depending who is tuning it may advise you to get a new AFM.

My Pfc including hand controller was $1580 landed, plus $300 for AFM an then $500 for the tuning.... im now questioning the value of it whn i could have a Wolf installed and tuned for $2000 and i would have laptop software, where as with the PFc im still wanting the Datalogit.

[bbenny]

Merli, im currently running a re-chipped std ecu.

Roy, if i push anything any further im going to need injectors regardless of my turbo, they are pretty close too 100% duty at the moment i think.

i would love to have a fully tunable management, but i want to feel more power! and i think that after spending about $2000 on management i will feel disapointed, where as spending that on turbo and injectors, with a new ecu chip i will get some decent power gains.

i want to FEEL the difference

and i think i can get the 250rwkw mark with the GTRS...

[Merli]

Forget the peak power figure.

The driveability, bottom end response and smooth power delivery of a custom tune will make your car much more of a pleasure to drive.

[bbenny]

well at the moment, it is a pretty good tune, and very drivable, the 2530 is extremely responsive, but from what i read the GTRS has very similar response to the 2530 but flows 400ps as aposed to the 2530's 320ps.

So if i get the ecu re-chiped at a fraction of the cost of management, i will make a much better peak power, but with similar low and midrange response.

but i can understand that a rechip is not on the same par as aftermarket management.

i guess i just want the most bang for my buck like everyone else.

and i tend to lean a little more towards turbo as i can see a more noticable gain...

[slip]

agree. a member of this forum tuned his own pfc on a 4dr R33 GTSt with exhaust, fmic and boost (std turbo) and ran a 12. youll get more out of a pfc - and if you get the hand controller, you have access to heaps of data on the motor.

[Merli]

Oh well... Sounds like you've already made up your mind.

[bbenny]

haha no i havent made up my mind, its just what im leaning towards at the moment, later in the day i might be leaning towards PFC. thats why i want opinions

[Jay95R33]

One other way to think about it is if you get the new turbo you'll be able to sell the 2530 for a decent price to re-coop some money. Maybe $1500 ??

But if you buy a PFC, you won't be able to re-coop much money out of the re-chipped ECU..

BUT... I think you may get better gains and better drivability from getting the PFC...

Have I made it tougher for you now??

J

[bbenny]

ive already thought that through Jay, and it ends up being much of a muchness...

the turbo will cost me around $2800 new so once i have sold the 2530 the amount actually leaving my account will be similar to the PFC.

so i just want to get an idea of what will be better bang for my buck. the only reason im leaning towards turbo is because, i will see a decent power gain and the R32 ECU is re-tunable...

[PurpleR32]

you already have an upgraded turbo.

Power FC would be my choice

[Roy]

Grab some cheap sh1t GTR injectors, a resistor pack ($400) and give the 2530 a chance with a well tuned PFc. Whilst i think being the first to try something ie GT-RS turbo, is cool, im not convinced the thing will satisfy your need for more power.

Get the PFc and get the 2530 singing... im hoping next week i can confirm that the GTR cams thing works with management, so there will be another 5-10rwkws from your setup with an optimal tune. Thats getting you around 235rwks at about 1.2-1.3bar, thats pretty reasonable assumption, even if not GTR cams then some 2nd hand HKS Step 1 cams.

Re-mapping the std ECU to run the std injectors seems fine, but all of a sudden if it needs to be re-mapped for bigger injectors then there is more work/expense involved....and remembering the GT-RS MAY make 240-250rwkws according to literature... the dyno charts that i have seen have only had it around the 220-230rwkws on an SR20.... but then again it could make 260rwkws, i dunno.

What im getting at is dont be like me and stuff around with std management at the risk of costing you power/driveability and underselling your existing setup.

[bbenny]

yeah i know what you are talking about roy, ive been putting up with the std management too. but i just hate dishing out wads of money and not gaining a ton of power! haha i just need to make more money and get both PFC and GTRS. maybe that will sort out all the problems. if anyone out there wants to sponsor my car with a PFC i would be greatful. PM for my account details. direct deposit is no problem

i also want something different, and i dont know of anyone running the GTRS on an RB20 here in Aus.

[Merli]

but i just hate dishing out wads of money and not gaining a ton of power!

And again, you're blinded by the stupid peak power number

Who said you won't gain a "ton of power"? What about area under the curve? I think you're forgetting the 1500-5500 rpm powerband :spcow:

[Roy]

Im getting pretty defensive these days, im not disagreeing or arguing, just throwing a few thoughts into the ring ...using my car as an example as its probably the opposite of the approach you have adopted to modifying your car

And again, you're blinded by the stupid peak power number

Who said you won't gain a "ton of power"? What about area under the curve? I think you're forgetting the 1500-5500 rpm powerband  :spcow:

Yeh Merli... i agree, but its a 2L, if you want some decent stomp you have to say goodbye to anything under 3,000rpm.

As long as im making some decent numbers between 4,000rpm and 8,000rpm then im happy...and Doughboy, benm etc can verify my thing is an NA car under 4,000rpm but its still fun.

Also helps that the car weighs approx 250kg less then a GTR so doesnt need so much torque downstairs, and has a 4mm shorter stroke and 8mm smaller bore (lighter piston/lower inertia) then an RB26 so wont mind a rev....though hydraulic lifters make me think that 8,400rpm is about as high as id want to go, (8,000rpm if your up there regularly)

Its easy to get good power, and it makes the car entertaining to drive, chasing repsonse is when it can (not always) get expensive... i suspect bbenny agrees with you and im in no way suggesting he is after a power delivery like mine....basically different strokes for different folks...

[BU5TER]

Troy, you the man, awesome well thought out friendly reply ")

[R31 POWER]

Interesting coz it is a tough call wich to get.I had some stuff typed but it's all to hard LOL

[bbenny]

you are pretty much on the money roy, I want to see some decent power figures and try something that no one else has, i like to be different!

and if i can get an ecu tune at $300 (which is something i would have to pay getting the PFC tuned) and a turbo at the same price as the power FC will cost then i figure i will be seeing a better gain in power. whilst i may loose a little in response down the bottom, from about 4000rpm-7500rpm i should see some serious power and torque increases.

[Merli]

Yeh Merli... i agree, but its a 2L, if you want some decent stomp you have to say goodbye to anything under 3,000rpm.

As long as im making some decent numbers between 4,000rpm and 8,000rpm then im happy...and Doughboy, benm etc can verify my thing is an NA car under 4,000rpm but its still fun.  

Also helps that the car weighs approx 250kg less then a GTR so doesnt need so much torque downstairs, and has a 4mm shorter stroke and 8mm smaller bore (lighter piston/lower inertia) then an RB26 so wont mind a rev....though hydraulic lifters make me think that 8,400rpm is about as high as id want to go, (8,000rpm if your up there regularly)

You forget that I also had a GTS-t with next to nothing under 4000rpm I know exactly what you're talking about, and I agree that a powerband of 4000-8000rpm would make for a wonderful car.

(also, I believe the RB26, even with it's longer stroke has a higher rev limit than the RB20 )

What my point was, bbenny kept going on about how he would prefer teh GT-RS upgrade, because he would get more power.

Evidence: "but i just hate dishing out wads of money and not gaining a ton of power! "

and

"i would love to have a fully tunable management, but i want to feel more power! and i think that after spending about $2000 on management i will feel disapointed, where as spending that on turbo and injectors, with a new ecu chip i will get some decent power gains."

I was merely pointing out the fact that these statements of "not gaining a ton of power" weren't correct, and that it might just be possible to get greater average power gains (area under the curve gains) through a customisable ECU, as opposed to the average power gained from upgrading from GT2530 -> GT-RS, as the GT2530 is already a great upgrade for the RB20 engine!

At no time did I say that a GT-RS would give a bad powerband, or be a bad choice