Therapy

[XGTRX]

but isn't everything between you and her meant to be strictly confidential?

It is. No one knows who the patient is.

[XGTRX]

* Taurine + Glutamine + B12 > GABA

Just re-read your post, funnily enough this is what I used to take as a recovery/ sleep aid when I was bodybuilding all those years ago. At the time out of those substances above GABA was the only one that the research was inconclusive to the effects the supplement had on the anterior pituitary as their was no evidence of GABA passing the blood/brain barrier. The only clinical research that vaguely supported it at the time was in Italy that based their conclusions on a sample of 50 subjects.

I remember taking 5 - 10 grams a night together with the above, and after the tingling and change in respiratory rate, I had amazing sleeps but very hard to get out of bed.

Is there any further findings that support the initial theories, and where is its place in general wellbeing and mental health.

Thanks

[GTR-N1]

Sure. Dr Henry Osiecki formulated (via Qld Uni) a test where GABA assessment along with 9 other neurotransmitters are interpreted.

The Test itself called Moods Disorders is available to practitioners and biochemists through Quest For Health. CEO is Michael Rath Ph# 1300797989

[GTR-N1]

Precursors cross the blood/brain barrier before GABA is produced. Efficacy of the Taurine component is stronger if it doesn't have to compete against other amino acids, peptides or protein. So PreGABA is best taken at least half an hour before food or 2 hours after food.

[GTR-N1]

B12 is destroyed by low pH or stomach acid. It works best by injection, sublingual or if enterically coated so it's absorbed through the villi of the small intestine. The brand name of the last option is Metagenics B12 and Folate.

[Birds]

Why not phenibut?

[Trozzle]

I was going to say the same thing, though I'm not sure whether Phenibut could be considered in the same category of substance as plain old GABA.

Personally I don't think Phenibut is a good idea due to the addiction potential (it's really effective, and unfortunately those whom it will help the most may be more likely to turn to substance use as a bandaid) as well as the subsequent withdrawals if you find yourself in that boat. I've read from many different people it's a very undesirable withdrawal and tapering is recommended for those who've become dependant, however going cold turkey won't necessarily do any harm (it won't be fun though).

Edited February 9, 2016 by Trozzle

[Trozzle]

The "War on Drugs" threw the baby out with the bathwater and any study on drugs that were also used recreationally wouldn't get funded. People are now starting to look at it again for conditions like PTSD (MDMA) and depression (psilocybin).

eg "The study on this page will determine the efficacy of psilocybin in treatment-resistant depression" - its reached its funding goal;

https://www.crowdrise.com/timferriss

I find it amusing that these compounds were historically used for therapeutic purposes of sorts, compared to nowadays where everyone is seemingly led to believe they're somehow dangerous....I mean the stuff is practically the definition of non-toxic. Either compound would be incredibly difficult to overdose on or even cause any kind of physical harm.

p. 45, from A Magic Mushroom Unmasked in Sandoz 1886- 1961: Jubilee Volume

The existence of the "sacred mushrooms" fell into oblivion as the miraculous effects attributed to them were regarded as superstitions until a few years ago, when American investigators, particularly R. Gordon. Wasson and his wife Valentina Pavlovna, re-discovered the mushroom cult in remote mountainous areas of Southern Mexico. The well-know mycologist, Roger Heim, Muséum National d'Histoire Naturelle in Paris, classified as the mushrooms which the Mexican Indians call "teonanácatl" and use for magic purposes. He also cultivated some on a laboratory scale. Heim entrusted our laboratories with the chemical investigations of teonanácatl (Psilocybe mexicana Heim). In a relatively short time our chemists isolated the active principles, obtained them in crystalline form and elucidated their chemical structure. Soon, both active principles, psilocybin and psilocin, were synthesized.

The mental effects of these pure substances, which were ascertained in volunteers, were identical with those of the mushrooms. Psilocybin and psilocin not only have certain chemical features in common with Delysid [LSD] but are also structurally related to serotonin, a finding that is of biochemical interest. Their effects on human beings are qualitatively similar to those of Delysid; quantitatively are about 100 times weaker than those of Delysid, are valuable tools in experimental psychiatry, and have also proved useful as drug adjuvants in psychotherapy, and more especially, in psychoanalysis.

SANDOZ LTD., BASLE, SWITZERLAND

9792*-Z1540 e.-sp./d.-fr.

Printed in Switzerland.

Delysid (LSD 25)

D-lysergic acid diethylamide tartrate

Sugar-coated tablets containing 0.025 mg. (25 ug.)

Ampoules of 1 ml. containing 0.1 mg. (100 ug.) for oral administration.

The solution may also be injected s.c. or i.v. The effect is identical with that of oral administration but sets in more rapidly.

PROPERTIES

The administration of very small doses of Delysid (1/2-2 ug./kg. body weight) results in transitory disturbances of affect, hallucinations, depersonalization, reliving of repressed memories, and mild neuro-vegetative symptoms. The effect sets in after 30 to 90 minutes and generally lasts 5 to 12 hours. However, intermittent disturbances of affect may occasionally persist for several days.

METHOD OF ADMINISTRATION

For oral administration the contents of 1 ampoule of Delysid are diluted with distilled water, a 1% solution of tartaric acid or halogen-free tap water.

The absorption of the solution is somewhat more rapid and more constant that that of the tablets.

Ampoules which have not been opened, which have been protected against light and stored in a cool place are stable for an unlimited period. Ampoules which have been opened or diluted solutions retain their effectiveness for 1 to 2 days, if stored in a refrigerator.

INDICATIONS AND DOSAGE

Analytical psychotherapy, to elicit release of repressed material and provide mental relaxation, particularly in anxiety states and obsessional neuroses. The initial dose is 25 ug. (1/4 of an ampoule or 1 tablet). This dose is increased at each treatment by 25 ug. until the optimum dose (usually between 50 and 200 ug.) is found. The individual treatments are best given at intervals of one week.

Experimental studies on the nature of psychoses: By taking Delysid himself, the psychiatrist is able to gain an insight in the world of ideas and sensations of mental patients. Delysid can also be used to induced model psychoses of short duration in normal subjects, this facilitating studies on the pathogenesis of mental disease.

In normal subjects, doses of 25 to 75 ug. are generally sufficient to produce a hallucinatory psychosis (on an average 1 ug./kg. body weight). In certain forms of psychosis and in chronic alcoholism, higher doses are necessary (2 to 4 ug./kg. body weight).

PRECAUTIONS

Pathological mental conditions may be intensified by Delysid. Particular caution is necessary in subjects with a suicidal tendency and in those cases where a psychotic development appears imminent. The psycho-affective lability and the tendency to commit impulsive acts may occasionally last for some days.

Delysid should only be administered under strict medical supervision. The supervision should not be discontinued until the effects of the drug have completely worn off.

ANTIDOTE

The mental effects of Delysid can be rapidly reversed by the i.m. administration of 50 mg. chlorpromazine. Literature available on request.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Trozzle

[PranK]

I'm so lost.

To try to throw at least a tiny bit of input in, there are very good anonymous forums on beyondblue.org.au.

[Trozzle]

I butchered my post a million times, there was supposed to be something in there though, as I've come to realise, any actual input I give is quite obviously overlooked by the vast majority or poked at by some. The remains of my attempted post above were put in to show that I'm not pulling shit out of my ass completely and I'm trying to break down the stigma attached to things I've mentioned in the hopes that maybe someone takes my posts seriously.

Also, I'm unsure why you've mentioned Beyondblue. I'm not depressed, and if I did have anything I needed to discuss I've got a much much larger and more understanding/less judgemental/open minded community to discuss it with. They may be for the large part a bunch of misguided drug users, but they're some of the most honest and sincere people I've come to know.

I'm more than happy to piss off if my 'input' thus far is rubbing some the wrong way. I'm not the one looking for help; I'm merely trying to provide it in a way nobody else is going to touch on.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Trozzle

[PranK]

I butchered my post a million times, there was supposed to be something in there though, as I've come to realise, any actual input I give is quite obviously overlooked by the vast majority or poked at by some. The remains of my attempted post above were put in to show that I'm not pulling shit out of my ass completely and I'm trying to break down the stigma attached to things I've mentioned in the hopes that maybe someone takes my posts seriously.

Also, I'm unsure why you've mentioned Beyondblue. I'm not depressed, and if I did have anything I needed to discuss I've got a much much larger and more understanding/less judgemental/open minded community to discuss it with. They may be for the large part a bunch of misguided drug users, but they're some of the most honest and sincere people I've come to know.

I'm more than happy to piss off if my 'input' thus far is rubbing some the wrong way. I'm not the one looking for help; I'm merely trying to provide it in a way nobody else is going to touch on.

Whoa! I'm sorry that this is how you've taken responses.

I personally am not poking at you at all and I'm enjoying this discussion even though I'm having a hard time keeping up with it. Your input is absolutely valuable and I, for one, don't want you to piss off.

I reckon a more anonymous forum would be better, where nobody knows who terry is.

BTW, I totally misread this as a request for an anonymous mental health forum, hence my mention of beyond blue.

[Trozzle]

Whoa! I'm sorry that this is how you've taken responses.

I personally am not poking at you at all and I'm enjoying this discussion even though I'm having a hard time keeping up with it. Your input is absolutely valuable and I, for one, don't want you to piss off.

BTW, I totally misread this as a request for an anonymous mental health forum, hence my mention of beyond blue.

Sorry mate, I'm reading too far into things given the general response I get to bringing the subjects up. It's my fault that if I don't quite understand the point of something said in response to my comments, I immediately assume the tone.

There's no much to keep up with so to speak, given the only consistent back-and-forth conversation has been argumentative rather than an idea sharing discussion (where my assumptions of tone come from).

Most of my input is an attempt to open people's minds a little and consider things they've otherwise dismissed based on the misinformed prejudice ingrained in society. To have such stubborn opposition to even the suggestion that maybe something that's been used for thousands of years but has only been prohibited for a matter of decades could actually exhibit positive effect is of no benefit to anyone, particularly those we seek to help with their issues. To deny even the possibility that something illicit could blow modern treatments well and truly out of the water is being decidedly ignorant and in the case of qualified professionals in the industry, offensive.

For example: ketamine is only just being looked into as a treatment for depression....woooo congratuf**kinglations, I could've told you that years ago and not even from personal experience. Cannabis is showing more and more promising results in not only mental issues but physical ones, from mild to debilitating...again, how many people have been insisting this for how many years, and on what basis was it so goddamn difficult to perform studies to prove/disprove up until now? Mushrooms have been shown to prevent cluster headaches altogether...who need we point the finger at for this not being looked into earlier? Because I'm fairly sure those suffering from cluster headaches would readily tear that person limb from limb for denying them a cure to an ailment that's undoubtedly pushed them close to suicide.

You know who's responsible; you can find them here. Those who claim to be educated professionals but have made good effort to ignore the progression of their chosen profession, sticking by their beliefs built on blatant misinformation that have been proven false, all because their ego is more valuable than the service they provide to people truly in need. It's disgusting, and I'm here to keep pushing the ideas they dislike while providing more factual evidence to support it than they can ignore, until such time as someone appropriate tells me to shut up and leave (yourself haha). It seems public outcry is the only way to make progress on issues buried too deep within the pockets of the selfish bastards keeping these things illegal; this is a small part of my contribution to helping those society has turned their backs on.

Given I've probably all but killed any real interest in these threads the moment I've posted in them, might as well just share my other 'community'.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/forum.php

The above website is an online community built around harm reduction/minimisation from the use of recreational drugs. They have some very good sub-forums devoted to Mental Health, not necessarily anything to do with drug use. Hell, there's whole sections devoted to sober life for those who've overcome their issues or addiction. If you want to learn actual facts about recreational drugs and their effects, this is where to go. If you want to learn about their potential for psychological healing or therapy, again Bluelight is the place to go.

If you believe cannabis is explicitly destructive or that LSD will melt your brain, or that mental/emotional disorders are explicitely due to imbalanced brain chemistry which can be fixed with drugs (not what Terry does, I believe his methods likely have merit), and you wish to remain misinformed on these claims, Bluelight might be a reeeeaaaallllly big thorn in your side lol

Edited February 16, 2016 by Trozzle

[XGTRX]

Trozzle I think you better pull your head in with these allegations of people that have differing opinions to you are somehow ignorant and less open minded than a mid 20 year old user with hardly any life experience. You have no exposure to daily experiences of the healthcare system, (where many of us have for more years than you have been alive), much more attune to real world behavioral analysis, and have much more experience to the behavioral effects of changing the brain's chemistry.

And to suggest we are undermining our patient's care because we are selfish bastards or narrow minded, well...... Shake my head at this one, and illustrates quite clearly, that healthcare is not your chosen field, you are obviously in a back office job with too much time on your hands and are an expert on everything.

Stop trolling an otherwise good thread about helping people in need by an OP that obviously has more knowledge, more life experience and more to share in every respect than all of us put together, rather than your self righteous, 'blame the world' and 'I am a victim' carry on babble about your right to use mind altering substances for recreation.

[Trex]

Troy your comment "that my parents both used recreational drugs prior to my conception - primarily cannabis (not whilst pregnant, of course)," is interesting. Common sense as you allude to here, would suggest to not consume drugs whilst pregnant. However throughout my career I have seen approximately 100 children who have been negatively affected by their parents consuming drugs whilst pregnant...very sad.

my partner has seen roughly the same amount of children who have been negatively affected by other outside influences. To say that it caused by cannabis is very subjective.

Children in a class are not a good enough control to conclude that cannabis is the reasoning for their behavior.

[Trex]

But at 11.35 last night, her mother (who came along as well at the first session), texted, "Love you wat u doing".

This is getting weirder by the hour because I read on waking up, another text, "Hey".

I'm not inclined to reply at all now.

That's extremely odd.

[Trex]

Have you seen your patient since the original post Terry? How is she going?

I'm interested in your patients who have had long term narcotics use and are in the remission faze. Are they all similar in regards to their feelings and their behavior?

[Trozzle]

Cool story mate, maybe I feel the same about you and the ludicrous parallels you draw between these things that are completely unfounded in science. Blow me.

[Trozzle]

Also go f**k yourself mate this is me trying to help people rather than keeping them in their same shitty place with limited options because your too f**king short sighted to see beyond the complete bullshit you repeat as fact.

Sorry Christian, but Xf**kwitX is the reason I assume I'm being attacked. If that attitude is welcome, well he can go f**k himself and people can stick with the same round and round bullshit. Until the next miracle cure comes along, as it always does.

I'll be outside the box, helping people Xf**kwitX would rather see in prison because they use drugs, somewhere they can share serious issues without being judged by said f**kwit either and actually receive help rather than abuse.

Sorry again Christian, but that guy is a dead set piece of shit and I'm out.

[GTR-N1]

Have you seen your patient since the original post Terry? How is she going?

I'm interested in your patients who have had long term narcotics use and are in the remission faze. Are they all similar in regards to their feelings and their behavior?

In 1983, another practitioner Ron Mitchell and I were on TWT aka Terry Willessee Tonight. Ron an Acupuncturist and I had solved a puzzle on how best to treat two heroin addicts.

Our original approach was to employ hypnotherapy to tackle psychological addiction (and hence psychological withdrawal) followed by acupuncture to circumvent physical withdrawal. Twice, we failed. To reach a hypnotic state was well nigh impossible.

Then we got a much better result with one client by reversing the sequence. But again a hypnotic state was a key failure.

Then success...

With two ladies we used hypnosis while each had the acupuncture needles still in them. Four sessions of hypnotherapy and 5-6 acupuncture sessions later, we were reported to TWT by one of the girl's parents (who'd invited the daughter back home).

We were interviewed by reporter Alex Taylor and the ladies were interviewed then and six months later again, as a follow-up. Terry Willessee put the first interview to air but not the second. Glad to say though that both women were still off the H and didn't feel drawn to it anymore.

[Ben C34]

Sounds like you are living in the past.

Why hasn't it become more common if. You did it so long ago?