Therapy

[Trozzle]

A fellow Bluelight moderator successfully kicked his polydrug abuse and addiction, including hard opiates, using Ibogaine. He has had no cravings or desires for opiates since. Experienced next to no PAWS (withdrawal).

[GTR-N1]

Sounds like you are living in the past.

Why hasn't it become more common if. You did it so long ago?

I was responding to a question.

Your question is quite reasonable too Ben, and I'll answer it.

In 1983 Hawke/Keating were in power after the Fraser and McMahon years.

Hawke and Keating saw themselves as visionaries, deregulating the banking system, programmes against poverty and also drugs.

They chose the route of Methadone Programmes as being the silver bullet. And of course it wasnt.

Hypnotherapy and Acupuncture to them at the time were akin to snake oil.

[GTR-N1]

It might be worthwhile noting too since I seem to be living in the past that the then Aboriginal Minister received from me, a grant application to find out what biochemical aberrations were happening in the indigenous people's brain chemistry that could cause them to want to sniff petrol and become alcohol dependent.

By the time Robert Tickner became minister our team of Drs Nemeth, Yumiko and Lamprecht thought we had a chance.

Then the Libs got in in '96 and needed to fix up the national debt. The new Aboriginal Minister Sen John Heron shut down our proposal.

I cried when I attended a lecture by Jeff McMullen at Syd Uni's Great Hall in 2004 as he explained how the indigenous folk were terminally malaised through alcohol replacing fruit/veg and referred to it as an X-factor in their midst. I really don't know what more I could have done back in '96. Sigh...

The doctor, naturopath, biochemist and myself have since gone separate ways. I've kept in touch with Jeff McMullen (60 Minutes journo) only sparingly.

[Trozzle]

It might be worthwhile noting too since I seem to be living in the past that the then Aboriginal Minister received from me, a grant application to find out what biochemical aberrations were happening in the indigenous people's brain chemistry that could cause them to want to sniff petrol and become alcohol

That's not living in the past. Your parallels between classical serotonergic psychedelics and drugs of abuse like methylaphetamine and cocaine and the suggestion they're somehow in the same boat of general impact is what I take issue with, and to hold stubbornly to those beliefs without even humouring the idea they could be wrong isn't scientific, nor does it benefit the progression of medical science overall.

[GTR-N1]

What are you taking and why?

[XGTRX]

It might be worthwhile noting too since I seem to be living in the past that the then Aboriginal Minister received from me, a grant application to find out what biochemical aberrations were happening in the indigenous people's brain chemistry that could cause them to want to sniff petrol and become alcohol dependent.

By the time Robert Tickner became minister our team of Drs Nemeth, Yumiko and Lamprecht thought we had a chance.

Then the Libs got in in '96 and needed to fix up the national debt. The new Aboriginal Minister Sen John Heron shut down our proposal.

I cried when I attended a lecture by Jeff McMullen at Syd Uni's Great Hall in 2004 as he explained how the indigenous folk were terminally malaised through alcohol replacing fruit/veg and referred to it as an X-factor in their midst. I really don't know what more I could have done back in '96. Sigh...

The doctor, naturopath, biochemist and myself have since gone separate ways. I've kept in touch with Jeff McMullen (60 Minutes journo) only sparingly.

So do you really think it is a biochemical aberration?

I would say that the breakdown of their social structure, their lack of identity and the fact that a way of life that has been quite resilient for a thousand+ years has been changed in one generation has been the the main contributing factor.

I recall an interview with an elder that suggested to heal the kids we need to bring them back to restore their spirit through traditional means to prepare them for the world as without that spiritual/cultural foundation and identity they will not function in the world.

I know it's not scientific but I suppose its not the first time that testing and measuring something hasn't resulted in a solution.

My point being, that even if you found a biochemical aberration, is normalising the chemistry really the solution to a problem that may stem from something much deeper and beyond science?

Edited February 16, 2016 by XGTRX

[Trozzle]

My 'drug' ingestion goes as far as caffeine, cannabis (w/ small amount of tobacco), and MDMA every 2-3 months. No alcohol, no LSD, and not interested/couldn't be arsed with anything else.

In case you thought I was pulling shit out of the air, I'm referring at least to this:

aka euphemistically as party drugs, recreational drugs etc

should be called Fark Up Your Brain drugs!

These are the most evil insidious things on earth that will infiltrate demotivate and destroy future generations in what has been a great country.

They've progressed from pot to lsd to heroin to speed to coke to ecs to ice to flakka...

All cause a spike in a variety of up to ten or eleven brain neurotransmitters aka endorphins and leave the user dead in the water. The nice spike can last hours or only a few minutes.

By chasing after the original hit - hit after hit -
a) families get screwed up
b) money goes to the drug lords and down the chain of command
c) chromosomes get affected in offspring

Do you know people who've just 'lost it' on drugs? Alcohol is not illicit but yeah, it's a sleeper...

Blanket statements, speaking in absolutes, and not scientifically founded. Show me where you got the idea THC, CBD, LSD, or any classical psychedelic have appreciable binding affinities for SERT or DAT; moreso stronger than say, nicotine.

I'll assume your chromosome claim is regarding use whilst pregnant, else it's absolutely unfounded and unproven. As a professional, you should be clear in your claims so as to not mislead the layman. Your intentions should not negate this.

I won't digress any further.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Trozzle

[Trozzle]

Also on topic, why is it so seemingly difficult to conceive that perhaps the minds of those suffering from what we've deemed conditions may in fact be functioning 100% correctly in some cases, as per how they're 'wired'.

Whilst this following hypothetical is almost certainly an impossibility, consider that perhaps someone's brain developed with such a specific genetic anomaly that the programming of their brain so to speak was wired to create the exact opposite feelings when serotonin binds to various receptors, and instead of receiving a pleasurable reward sensation, they receive negative.

Like I said, almost certainly impossible....but still consider that we may be trying to fix something that ultimately isn't necessarily broken.

[GTR-N1]

So do you really think it is a biochemical aberration?

I would say that the breakdown of their social structure, their lack of identity and the fact that a way of life that has been quite resilient for a thousand+ years has been changed in one generation has been the the main contributing factor.

I recall an interview with an elder that suggested to heal the kids we need to bring them back to restore their spirit through traditional means to prepare them for the world as without that spiritual/cultural foundation and identity they will not function in the world.

I know it's not scientific but I suppose its not the first time that testing and measuring something hasn't resulted in a solution.

My point being, that even if you found a biochemical aberration is normalising the chemistry really the solution to a problem that may stem from something much deeper and beyond science?

We had authority through Bishop Malcolm (Indigenous Anglican Bishop in Cape York) and the Doomajee tribe to go ahead with a variety of tests. Our team of four - if given a grant - could collect material for 6 months and then collate it.

If we found anything, our long term plan was to assess if there were viable comparisons to alcohol effects on the Ainu tribes of Taiwan/Okinawa/Kyushu and also the common gene pool from Papua/Solomons/Tonga - or at least offer our information to future teams for study.

[GTR-N1]

Troy, Psych and Neuropsych reports to court using MMPI (Uni Minnesota) and Luria Testing for example are legion - referring to how people have been exhibiting "uncharacteristic behaviour" through the use of various illicit drugs.

I don't need to report to you just as you don't have to report to me about a) efficacy ratios b) validity testing c) reliability testing d) adverse effects e) contra-indications of multiple-drug usage through the use of flake, hammer, acid, coke, ecs, weed or speed. Cya

[Trozzle]

Thanks, that's all I need to read. So long as you're a medical professional, you can claim LSD causes a synaptic release of monoamines like serotonin and dopamine, without needing to back a thing.

If only it were really that easy.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Trozzle

[Trex]

In 1983, another practitioner Ron Mitchell and I were on TWT aka Terry Willessee Tonight. Ron an Acupuncturist and I had solved a puzzle on how best to treat two heroin addicts.

Our original approach was to employ hypnotherapy to tackle psychological addiction (and hence psychological withdrawal) followed by acupuncture to circumvent physical withdrawal. Twice, we failed. To reach a hypnotic state was well nigh impossible.

Then we got a much better result with one client by reversing the sequence. But again a hypnotic state was a key failure.

Then success...

With two ladies we used hypnosis while each had the acupuncture needles still in them. Four sessions of hypnotherapy and 5-6 acupuncture sessions later, we were reported to TWT by one of the girl's parents (who'd invited the daughter back home).

We were interviewed by reporter Alex Taylor and the ladies were interviewed then and six months later again, as a follow-up. Terry Willessee put the first interview to air but not the second. Glad to say though that both women were still off the H and didn't feel drawn to it anymore.

thats very intersting. and good news that they both abstained from further use!

[Trozzle]

Landmark Study Shows Long-Term Benefits of MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy for PTSD Sufferers

^^ for anyone who thought I was pulling shit out of nowhere, or genuinely interested in what MDMA-assisted therapy actually entails, we now have information

[XGTRX]

Another great example of a chemical being used as a medicinal substance in supervised and controlled environment and being administered by experts to treat an abnormal condition.

I don't think anyone has got a problem with that, do you?

The results look promising however the sample is quite small. It also is not an independent double blind placebo study which renders it unreliable from a scientific viewpoint, however if a larger sampled clinical trial (1000+) rendered similar results then it should be seriously investigated to be a viable treatment for the above-mentioned presentations. Of course the administration of such a substance would have to be under strict supervision, conditions and controls given the nature of the substance being used.

But yeah, all for it if it heals, that's what medicine is right?

[PranK]

But yeah, all for it if it heals, that's what medicine is right?

Absolutely! One of my medicines is grog, one of the other ones are my dogs.

They both render different results though.

I don't give a shit if they tried injecting methadone into people's eyeballs, if it shows any positive results then its worth investigating further. Right?

[XGTRX]

injecting methadone into people's eyeballs

Man, that's taking it too far. Just picturing it now. My eyes hurt. God damn it Prank, not the eyes, anything but the eyes,

[PranK]

Man, that's taking it too far. Just picturing it now. My eyes hurt. God damn it Prank, not the eyes, anything but the eyes,

OK so no injecting in the eyeballs. What about rubbing bupanthen on them?

[Trozzle]

Another great example of a chemical being used as a medicinal substance in supervised and controlled environment and being administered by experts to treat an abnormal condition.

I don't think anyone has got a problem with that, do you?

HONESTLY, I had the impression until now not that you believed contrary to this, but that you were insistent that there is no 'safe' way to use these drugs and also dismissive of my suggestion that it holds value in PTSD therapy. I'm not poking shit here, being honest - that has been the impression I've received.

Of course this isn't comparable to the recreational context of MDMA. That's another argument I haven't come into this thread to ramble on. I'm just glad it's being used positively. Similar to mushrooms for cluster headaches, but that's one without much proper research yet and not for this thread.

[Trozzle]

Wasn't sure which thread was most appropriate:

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/lsd-could-help-fight-depression-inhibiting-mental-time-travel

[Trozzle]

Moar:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/05/17/magic-mushrooms-lifts-severe-depression-in-trial/