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R34 Gtt E85 & Surge Tank Setup Questions

sleptema

By sleptema,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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sleptema Proficient

sleptema

Posted
Posted (edited)

I am currently in the process of pricing up and converting my car to e85, and with so many rumours, myths and misinformation I just wanted to get a few things straightened out before I go ahead and fully convert to e85.

My current build:
I am unsure of the brand of my intank pump, but I am making 450rwhp on pump 98. 1000cc ev14 injectors, turbosmart 1200 fpr.
Short term goals:
After conversion to e85, aiming for 500rwhp.

Long term goals:
Building up a 25/30 with a power goal of 650rwhp on e85.
What I am thinking of running:
Using my intank pump as a lift pump, feeding a surge tank (2-3L), then twin bosch 044 pumps feeding my rail through a -8an line. Using something along the lines of ( http://www.aftermarketindustries.com.au/surge-tank-kits--accessories-c1/surge-tank-kit-spr044-p241/) as the tank/pump setup. Obviously I will be getting new lines made up with speedflow fittings.

My questions are: (sorry, some may sound stupid. I may have the correct answers, but due to misinformation from many sources I would like to be sure)
Can I use my standard fuel tank, or does it need to be anodized?
I have heard bosch 044 pumps hate e85 and break down after 100/500 hours. How true is this?
Will the setup I mentioned above be enough to support my power goal and flow requirements? Should I upgrade my lift pump as well? Is the single -8an line going to provide enough flow?
Is there anything else I am missing or is required?
I work FIFO (fly in fly out, 2 weeks on/1 week off) so I only get the chance to drive my car 1 week out of every 3. So the car spends a lot of time just sitting at home, and when I am home I barely go through a tank of pump 98 (maybe drive 100-200 kms, with the exception being if I have track/skidpan days). Will the fuel go bad if I leave it sitting for too long? Would it be better to fill up before I leave or the day I get back?

Cheers for any help fellas!
Edited by sleptema
Piggaz Grand Master

Piggaz

Posted
Posted

Forget the 044's. They just don't like the e85 environment. I've had my primary pump get very lazy once, so I changed both feed pumps now the the pumps don't look 100% happy/healthy again. AFR gauge and fuel pressure gauge has confirmed this.

There are many options out there now. Have a look at the Holley dominator 1800.

GTSBoy Grand Master

GTSBoy

Posted
Posted

I concur with the pig. You're almost 100% better off with a single E85 happy pump than a pair of anything, and especially not a pair of pumps that have had a lot of failures on E85.

Whether you should upgrade your lift pump or not really depends on what it actually is. If it were an 044, then it's probably be a good idea. Not from the capacity poiint of view, but certainly from the lifetime point of view. Given that it is able to make 450rwHP on 98 against fuel rail pressure, it is quite likely to be able to flow your 500 on E85 with no back pressure....but it is a risk saying and trying that when you don't know what it is.

The big question really is....what ECU? The reason I ask is that you are far better off if you can do a proper flex setup. Then if you leave some E85 in the tank and find that it's not so great after a couple of weeks, then you can water it down with 98, or top it up with E85 without worrying so much. But in general 2 weeks sitting around is not going to make E85 go off or absorb a bunch of water. Naturally it would be sensible to leave the smallest amount of fuel in the tank before you go back to work, then dump in the largest quantity of fresh stuff when you get home, for however much the fuel actually does go off.

sleptema Proficient

sleptema

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I concur with the pig. You're almost 100% better off with a single E85 happy pump than a pair of anything, and especially not a pair of pumps that have had a lot of failures on E85.

Whether you should upgrade your lift pump or not really depends on what it actually is. If it were an 044, then it's probably be a good idea. Not from the capacity poiint of view, but certainly from the lifetime point of view. Given that it is able to make 450rwHP on 98 against fuel rail pressure, it is quite likely to be able to flow your 500 on E85 with no back pressure....but it is a risk saying and trying that when you don't know what it is.

The big question really is....what ECU? The reason I ask is that you are far better off if you can do a proper flex setup. Then if you leave some E85 in the tank and find that it's not so great after a couple of weeks, then you can water it down with 98, or top it up with E85 without worrying so much. But in general 2 weeks sitting around is not going to make E85 go off or absorb a bunch of water. Naturally it would be sensible to leave the smallest amount of fuel in the tank before you go back to work, then dump in the largest quantity of fresh stuff when you get home, for however much the fuel actually does go off.

I have a Link g4+. I have thought about a flex fuel setup; is it worth the extra upfront cost of parts and tuning for the advantage of reliability? The other added advantage is that there is a 98 pump 200m from my house, where the closest e85 pump is 20-30 minutes away. I will take a better look into this now.

Ok, so 044 is out. I will research some better options. I'll look at the Holley dominator now, thanks Piggaz.

I am guessing through the lack of response about the other questions, they mean that my tank is fine to run e85 without anodizing, and the pump/flow setup will be sufficient?

sleptema Proficient

sleptema

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Just had a look on Links website. It seems they have a bunch of sensors that I/my tuner says I require including the ethanol content sensor, TPS and boost control solenoid. I think I'll be grabbing all of them with an expansion harness for extra inputs. Should I also invest in an intake temp sensor and wideband while I am at it?

Will email and get some prices hopefully after the weekend.

Is there anything else I am missing?

sleptema Proficient

sleptema

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Forget the 044's. They just don't like the e85 environment. I've had my primary pump get very lazy once, so I changed both feed pumps now the the pumps don't look 100% happy/healthy again. AFR gauge and fuel pressure gauge has confirmed this.

There are many options out there now. Have a look at the Holley dominator 1800.

Oh and, look what I found...

http://www.aftermarketindustries.com.au/surge-tank-kits--accessories-c1/surge-tank-kit-spr1800-s-p179/

Looks like I have my setup.

If your confused about the photo/youtube link, they have the pictures mixed up with the twin 044 setup.

Edited by sleptema
Piggaz Grand Master

Piggaz

Posted
Posted

Oh and, look what I found...

http://www.aftermarketindustries.com.au/surge-tank-kits--accessories-c1/surge-tank-kit-spr1800-s-p179/

Looks like I have my setup.

If your confused about the photo/youtube link, they have the pictures mixed up with the twin 044 setup.

PM "GTRNUR". He has/had one for sale. I bought the pump off him late last year. Both have done very little work.

sleptema Proficient

sleptema

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Purchased a SP800 last night with twin walbro 460s and a turbosmart FPR2000. It has the ability to be upgraded to 3 pumps if I wanted to increase my power goal. Contacted AI and the owner gave me a little discount so I went ahead with the purchase.

Couple emails that sealed the deal for me:
:"Its proven, and the best engineered product we have ever created. Alex Rodriguez also used it for the full season last year for Redline Time Attack in the US in the RX7 (still installed). He came 2nd overall in the unlimited open class over 5-6 races."
-"The SP800, with 3x pumps installed, is the kit that helped the Motorsport Mechanical R33 GTR take out Nulon Nationals in 2015 with a 9.3s pass; can has 640kw atw (e85)."

I am confident I have made the correct choice. Also, the dominator tank has a 2 month wait, where the SP800 is only 2 weeks.

Edited by sleptema
sleptema Proficient

sleptema

Posted
  • Author
Posted

My ecu has fuel pump speed control, I will just run 1 on my current tune until I need the second with the 3L.

I would rather have too much than not enough. Would hate to get it on the expensive dyno and find it won't make the power because of something as small as a fuel pump.

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