What Rear Housing For Hta3076

[vkadam]

Hi guys

I will be fitting an HTA3076 to my R34 (already bought the turbo based on previous advice on here). Basically I have the following current set up

R34 RB25 neo stock internals

garrett GT3076r .63 housing

tuneagent cheap manifold

external gate

1000cc id injectors

tomei type b 260 cams

big fuel pump, surge tank, exhaust, front mount etc

power fc running caltex e flex all the time making 320 rwkw.

The car currently runs 22 psi but drops down to 16 psi at the top end. Dyno sheet attached.

To give some background, I asked a few questions in this thread:

http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/426059-forced-performance-hta-turbos/page-15

The car was dropping down to 16 psi and even with the .63 housing was laggier than other people running a larger rear housing, but I decided to leave the car as it was until now. The turbo now appears to have shit itself so I am now replacing it. I thought hard about whether I should just put the HTA on the manifold I have now but given the boost control issue and the lag I think I would be better off changing the manifold, gate, turbo, housing and putting on a quality setup.

The question is what rear housing to go. I see a lot of talk of twin scroll for GT35 size turbos but not so much for for this HTA3076. What do people think of the following:

http://gcg.com.au/turbo-parts/turbine-housings/garrett-gt30r-series-1/turbine-housing-gt30r-t3-split-pulse-detail

http://gcg.com.au/turbo-parts/turbine-housings/garrett-gt30r-series-1/turbine-housing-gt30r-v-band-in-out-split-pulse-detail

Obviously if I went the divided housing I would get a proper manifold with either single or twin gates made up to suit. Looking to run 22-24 psi (stock internals). Unsure exactly what springs to order here. Around the desired PSI I want to run?

I was curious as to what size housing would be best and emailed GCG and they said:

In a similar ratio single entry vs dual entry comparison, power levels will be almost identical, however spool rates can be improved u to 800rpm depending on the application. If a proper manifold is made to suit split pulse, the advantages are very noticeable. Our most common 2.5L size would be either 0.82a/r or 0.83a/r. We haven’t used that many 1.01a/r split pulse turbos in this application, so we don’t really have any numbers between 0.82 S/E vs 1.01 D/E. Either way, anything in the 0.8** range is ideal for this engine.

Basically I am leaning towards going for the .83 twin scroll housing based on GCG's reply above, stating that power levels will be almost identical but will spool quicker. I drive the car on the street and would like less lag than what I have now. If I can also get more top end that is a bonus but I would really like to get some quick spool happening.

However I have read other people say that when you go twin scroll you go up a housing size as they restrict the top end.

So I just thought I would post this up as I know there are some very knowledgeable people on these boards. What are peoples thoughts on these rear housings?

Thanks

[vkadam]

Dyno sheet will not upload in this thread I keep getting an error but it is on the very last post on this page:

http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/426059-forced-performance-hta-turbos/page-15

Quite laggy for a 3076 0.63

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

What's your Base gate pressure?

Maybe you need to throw in a few more springs

[Dale FZ1]

The car was dropping down to 16 psi and even with the .63 housing was laggier than other people running a larger rear housing...

... I think I would be better off changing the manifold, gate, turbo, housing and putting on a quality setup.

Basically I am leaning towards going for the .83 twin scroll housing based on GCG's reply above, stating that power levels will be almost identical but will spool quicker. I drive the car on the street and would like less lag than what I have now. If I can also get more top end that is a bonus but I would really like to get some quick spool happening.

Can't see your dyno sheet, bear in mind it only demonstrates what happens under full load. Not the real world transient response. I drove Mafia's 3076 0.63 setup, and reckon for road use that turbo with either water injection or E85 it's great on a RB25. Comes in earlier, also signs out earlier. But gives easy access to big streetable hp. Not ideal for track, IMO though.

Street use only, run with the 0.82 split pulse. But you must be prepared to get a well designed manifold with twin gates. That's going to cost, but it will get the best result. Wolverine's 3082 0.82 split pulse setup was extremely smooth and progressive. Don't recall that it rolled over up top, seemed pretty good. If you're running E85 it should be sensational.

A single scroll 0.82 would be far simpler to get a decent manifold and gate setup. Less complexity, less cost. Easier to install and maintain stuff. Again on E85, you're way ahead. Still, have to expect it will take around 4000-4200 to make 22psi, but it would run hard to 7500, maybe more given you have non standard cams.

You are probably going to find the 1.0x GT30 housings (in either single entry or split pulse) much less easy to get onto - do you know what their actual availability is? The thing I have noticed when playing with a 1.06 split pulse housing was that they are bulky and really make access to the oil & water lines on the centre cartridge very difficult. That alone would be enough to make me look elsewhere.

For best results, you can't beat cubic inches. Get a RB30 bottom end under that head. Run with the simpler/cheaper single scroll 0.82 and E85.

[LaurelPWR]

On 22 February 2016 at 9:44 PM, vkadam said:

Hi guys

I will be fitting an HTA3076 to my R34 (already bought the turbo based on previous advice on here). Basically I have the following current set up

R34 RB25 neo stock internals

garrett GT3076r .63 housing

tuneagent cheap manifold

external gate

1000cc id injectors

tomei type b 260 cams

big fuel pump, surge tank, exhaust, front mount etc

power fc running caltex e flex all the time making 320 rwkw.

The car currently runs 22 psi but drops down to 16 psi at the top end. Dyno sheet attached.

To give some background, I asked a few questions in this thread:

http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/426059-forced-performance-hta-turbos/page-15

The car was dropping down to 16 psi and even with the .63 housing was laggier than other people running a larger rear housing, but I decided to leave the car as it was until now. The turbo now appears to have shit itself so I am now replacing it. I thought hard about whether I should just put the HTA on the manifold I have now but given the boost control issue and the lag I think I would be better off changing the manifold, gate, turbo, housing and putting on a quality setup.

The question is what rear housing to go. I see a lot of talk of twin scroll for GT35 size turbos but not so much for for this HTA3076. What do people think of the following:

http://gcg.com.au/turbo-parts/turbine-housings/garrett-gt30r-series-1/turbine-housing-gt30r-t3-split-pulse-detail

http://gcg.com.au/turbo-parts/turbine-housings/garrett-gt30r-series-1/turbine-housing-gt30r-v-band-in-out-split-pulse-detail

Obviously if I went the divided housing I would get a proper manifold with either single or twin gates made up to suit. Looking to run 22-24 psi (stock internals). Unsure exactly what springs to order here. Around the desired PSI I want to run?

I was curious as to what size housing would be best and emailed GCG and they said:

In a similar ratio single entry vs dual entry comparison, power levels will be almost identical, however spool rates can be improved u to 800rpm depending on the application. If a proper manifold is made to suit split pulse, the advantages are very noticeable. Our most common 2.5L size would be either 0.82a/r or 0.83a/r. We haven’t used that many 1.01a/r split pulse turbos in this application, so we don’t really have any numbers between 0.82 S/E vs 1.01 D/E. Either way, anything in the 0.8** range is ideal for this engine.

Basically I am leaning towards going for the .83 twin scroll housing based on GCG's reply above, stating that power levels will be almost identical but will spool quicker. I drive the car on the street and would like less lag than what I have now. If I can also get more top end that is a bonus but I would really like to get some quick spool happening.

However I have read other people say that when you go twin scroll you go up a housing size as they restrict the top end.

So I just thought I would post this up as I know there are some very knowledgeable people on these boards. What are peoples thoughts on these rear housings?

Thanks

Hey man I'm also looking at doing the .83 twin scroll rear on a hta3076 but on a s1 rb25 with pon cams on e85... 

Did you end up going down this route? What result did you see??

[BlackBox]

Fwiw I also went from a gt3076 to HTA 3076 on my 34 gtt, it isn't done yet but as with you i also went with the Poncams and water/meth (no e85) I was fully prepared to go the twin scroll route but after much reading it seemed the concensus was 'it's not worth it for a turbo this size that's already responsive' so I got a top Mount 6 boost manifold and single scroll rear, .82 I think?

[LaurelPWR]

Fwiw I also went from a gt3076 to HTA 3076 on my 34 gtt, it isn't done yet but as with you i also went with the Poncams and water/meth (no e85) I was fully prepared to go the twin scroll route but after much reading it seemed the concensus was 'it's not worth it for a turbo this size that's already responsive' so I got a top Mount 6 boost manifold and single scroll rear, .82 I think?

Yeah man I pmed you last week about yours... Have a look in your inbox brother

[vkadam]

Hey sorry for the late reply. I did end up purchasing the twin scroll housing and getting a workshop to fit it all up and tune it. The car will not hold boost and drops back to 16psi at redline for some reason (down from 22 psi, it did the same thing with my old 3076). However it still makes 353 rwkw at that 16 psi. It is a totally different car to drive. At the same rpm where it used to make under 200rwkw it now makes almost 300 rwkw. Compared to what I had before (garrett 3076 .63 with a tuneagent manifold) it now almost feels like going back to a car with the stock turbo down low.

Edited September 19, 2016 by vkadam

[vkadam]

here is the old turbo dyno sheet. At 115klms per hour it makes around 180rwkw.

[vkadam]

here is the new sheet. At 115 klms per hour it makes about 290 rwkw. So it made a pretty big difference.

Also the torque is way up. At 95 klms on the old turbo it made 150nm whereas with the new turbo it makes 300nm at 95klms.

Edited September 19, 2016 by vkadam

[LaurelPWR]

here is the new sheet. At 115 klms per hour it makes about 290 rwkw. So it made a pretty big difference.

Also the torque is way up. At 95 klms on the old turbo it made 150nm whereas with the new turbo it makes 300nm at 95klms.

Thanks for your reply man [emoji4]

What size a/r twin scroll rear housing did you end up using? And what manifold did you mate it with?

What boost control are you running and what size gate?

Sorry for 20 questions brother hahah

[Kinkstaah]

+1 actually following up with results
 

.63 rears just are kind of shit in the real world, you nearly never get a better result or a more responsive result from going that way. See also: Cheap manifolds. Use the stocker (its really not that bad) or go full retard and twin scroll high mount things.

[Dale FZ1]

16 hours ago, vkadam said:

I did end up purchasing the twin scroll housing and getting a workshop to fit it all up and tune it. The car will not hold boost and drops back to 16psi at redline for some reason (down from 22 psi, it did the same thing with my old 3076). However it still makes 353 rwkw at that 16 psi.

It is a totally different car to drive.... it now almost feels like going back to a car with the stock turbo down low.

Great news, great result.  Got pics of the install?  As per PWRLaurel, interested to see more about the manifold (and gate/s) setup.

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Could be FMIC related as the pressure is dropping dramatically across the core.. so hot side could still be 22psi however cold side is 16psi (as an example).

Try hooking up the pressure source from the cold side to your actuator and block off the pressure source (compressor side).

And "if" it's hitting 22psi all the way, then you know your FMIC is playing silly buggers.

[LaurelPWR]

Could be FMIC related as the pressure is dropping dramatically across the core.. so hot side could still be 22psi however cold side is 16psi (as an example).

Try hooking up the pressure source from the cold side to your actuator and block off the pressure source (compressor side).

And "if" it's hitting 22psi all the way, then you know your FMIC is playing silly buggers.

Another plausible possibility for sure... I run my turbosmart eboost2 boost gauge source from the plenum and I have a separate Omori Boost gauge source from the compressor housing and there is a very slight (less then a full second) delay in me reaching my target boost at the plenum and the compressor spikes to 1psi higher at the same time.

Correct me if I'm wrong but could another possibility be faulty/weak bov?

[Dale FZ1]

^^ Consider boost leaks from any/everywhere.

I'd also think about the air intake pipe, filter, intercooler piping, intercooler, and every part of the exhaust system.

Some flow-restrictive areas aren't immediately obvious until after they're changed, and the hp output increases like magic.

I wouldn't consider it "that" easy to push a setup like VKAdam has up near the 400kW mark without a few challenges.  But what he's got now is pretty impressive!

 

[LaurelPWR]

^^ Consider boost leaks from any/everywhere.

I'd also think about the air intake pipe, filter, intercooler piping, intercooler, and every part of the exhaust system.

Some flow-restrictive areas aren't immediately obvious until after they're changed, and the hp output increases like magic.

I wouldn't consider it "that" easy to push a setup like VKAdam has up near the 400kW mark without a few challenges.  But what he's got now is pretty impressive!

 

For sure man! Its a great result especially compared to the old gt3076...

As far as boost leaks go,

I spray soapy water all around the bay and use compressed air (30-35psi) through a 2-1/2 inch tapered pvc tap and pressurise my whole system to eliminate boost leaks! Works a treat and I very rarely have any leaks cos I do the test a few times a year or whenever I'm doing an intercooler flush or turbo inspection or swap etc...

I would suggest vkadam does something similar to rule that out also..

[vkadam]

Went with the .83 twin scroll

The manifold was sinco and used two turbosmart 40mm comp gates. The workshop also put in a Nitto Head gasket, ARP head studs and Performance valve springs.  Also put 1600cc injectors in and retuned. For some reason my 1000ccs were at a pretty high duty cycle at only 320 rwkw.

DaleFZ1 - Thanks for your advice in this thread, appreciate it. I do not have pics, however if you are interested I could take some.

Laurelpower and dosepipe sutututu- yea I will try and find where the boost leak is occurring. If it ran 22 or 24 psi to redline it would have to be getting close to 400kw, so that would be good. However at the moment I can't really put that power to the ground effectively.

 

Plans for the car are:

- get boost leak fixed

- flare rear guards

- alignment to reduce negative camber in rear

- new wider and grippier rear tyres

 

Car currently has 18x10 +15 on the rear with stock guards not even rolled and there is very little clearance. It currently has ksport coilovers that came with the car and are relatively hard. It does look to have some negative camber which means it never scrubs. I am hoping if I roll and flare the rear guards I can run less negative camber without scrubbing and get much better traction without spending too much more money. Traction at the moment is really lacking.

[LaurelPWR]

I too have had struggles with traction so I added some micro flares, some 315/30/18 nitto nt01 semi slicks and re aligned the car to only .8° camber on both rears. I can't recommend the nt01 enough. Excellent grip even without a warm up. I also run my rear coilovers and sway bar on the softest settings.

As far as your turbo/engine set up is concerned, have you read the thread about a hta3076 by 34GeeTeeTee on his rb25 Neo ?
His engine set up is very similar to yours except single scroll not twin scroll but (absolutely no offence intended) his results are far more impressive than yours... Here's his dyno for before and after the turbo swap

Blue line is gt3076 and red line is hta3076

Here the link to the thread: Forced Performance Hta Turbos


There must be a restriction or boost leak somewhere in your system bro...

[LaurelPWR]

Also forgot to ask earlier man, what's the specs of your full exhaust system/cat/mufflers etc.