Post Track Day Q's: Rotor Wear, Gearbox Oil, Ps Pump, Manifold Nuts

[V28VX37]

Hi all,

I did a track day at Calder Park on Sunday (it was awesome), couple of general maintenance questions from that:

1. I just replaced my front pads before the track day and bedded them in + ran on the street about 150kms to get them ready. They were replaced like for like: Remsa -> Roadhouse, which is the same 650C pad, and I put all the shims etc. back the same way they were before. After the track day I'm seeing what looks like uneven rotor wear on both sides. It looks like the pads are not clamping the centre of the disc as much as the outer. Is this something to worry about?

2. I checked the gearbox oil before the track day and the box was full, which is good. However the oil itself looks a bit bubbly/cloudy, see pic below. It's Redline Lightweight Shockproof and about 16,000 street kms and 3 track days old - is it good to run further or time to replace?

3. I had the PS rack and pump reconditioned recently and it looks like it's sprung a leak near the PS pump, at the top front left corner of the engine/head. I'm not 100% sure but one of the thin rubber lines running right behind the timing cover looks pretty wet, does anyone know what this is? It runs off the PS pump among several other things. The left hand side of the engine is a bit wet but I'm not sure if it's PS fluid, coolant or what. Any suggestions on how to remedy?

4. The turbo-to-manifold nuts came loose at the track with a nice big whistle at high revs/boost. Thanks to the SAU team I managed to tighten the top two and the bottom rear one, however the bottom front one seems like mission impossible. Is there a way to get to it without removing the whole intake system and/or turbo? Some special clever tool perhaps? It's a 17mm nut.

Thanks guys!

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Rotor wear looks interesting, sure you've got the right pads?

Gearbox oil, I would personally stay away from Redline shock proof, even the light weight stuff. I learnt the hard way and screwed up my synchros in my box. It happily grinds 3rd 4th 5th now.

[dermy]

After speaking with a gearbox rebuilder he recomened changing oil every 20k with syn oil for everyday use so id say your due..

With the turbo bolts i was able to get a 17mm on to the bottom left bolt and turn a 1/4 at a time with the ring end so it can be done its just tight

Brake i have no idea whats going on there..

Power steering maybe a hose hasn't been completely tightened or you've rubbed through a hose

[V28VX37]

Rotor wear looks interesting, sure you've got the right pads?

Gearbox oil, I would personally stay away from Redline shock proof, even the light weight stuff. I learnt the hard way and screwed up my synchros in my box. It happily grinds 3rd 4th 5th now.

Yep definitely the right pads, they go all the way to the inner edge of the rotor surface too, just uneven looking clamping. I have the stock shims in there that could theoretically cause something like this but I had them with the previous pads too with no issues. I might email BrakesDirect and ask for their opinion..

I've been happy with Redline so far, no issues.

[V28VX37]

After speaking with a gearbox rebuilder he recomened changing oil every 20k with syn oil for everyday use so id say your due..

With the turbo bolts i was able to get a 17mm on to the bottom left bolt and turn a 1/4 at a time with the ring end so it can be done its just tight

Brake i have no idea whats going on there..

Power steering maybe a hose hasn't been completely tightened or you've rubbed through a hose

Cheers mate. Do you know what goes in that little power steering hose? It's got a clamp at the end but feels loose so I've added another cable tie too, will keep an eye on it.

[V28VX37]

A bit more on the brake shims, there are two shims in there, this type:

And then also a metallic 'half width' one, which I'm guessing is the anti-squeal shim? It's roughly like in this sketch:

Could that shim be causing wear like that? It's on the outer edge so it would make sense that there's more clamping on that side?

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Yep definitely the right pads, they go all the way to the inner edge of the rotor surface too, just uneven looking clamping. I have the stock shims in there that could theoretically cause something like this but I had them with the previous pads too with no issues. I might email BrakesDirect and ask for their opinion..

I've been happy with Redline so far, no issues.

I would do some research on Redline Shockproof, especially around those who track their cars regularly. It tends to destroy healthy synchros.

[V28VX37]

I would do some research on Redline Shockproof, especially around those who track their cars regularly. It tends to destroy healthy synchros.

Cheers mate. What do you use?

[V28VX37]

Good service from BrakesDirect:

What you’ve send through isn’t unusual it happens a bit and goes away with time as the pads wear down. Were the rotors machined when the new Remsa were put in?

I let them know that the rotors were not machined and got the following:

I wouldn’t worry about machining them now as you’ve kept the same pad compound and they’ve bedded in fine, otherwise it would’ve affected performance.

Just leave them in and in time it will go away.

So all good on the brake front.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Cheers mate. What do you use?

Nulon Smooth Shift

[CEF33Y]

On the g'box (25det) oil I just use castrol vmx80.

3 years of daily driving and prob 3 or 4 drift days a yr, box still feels the same. Changed every 20k.

Previously used redline, on a box that had a near dead 2nd gear syncro, and it made the problem almost go away.

But I concur with the above, if you're box is still good, don't use redline.

[Dale FZ1]

^^ +1 for VMX. Although I'd suggest it's ham fisted + rushed gear changes that kill gearboxes, not oil. Good road car gearbox, not a racing box. Don't treat it like its got a dog gearset and things will last significantly longer. Right spec oil and it will last longer again.

Suggest you remove the brake rotors and run a wire wheel on the flange faces for both the hub and rotor. Ensure all scale and other buildup is removed. Put a very thin smear of silver anti seize on both surfaces.

Get a can of brake assembly lube and slip the nozzle extender under the caliper dust boots. Give it a squirt. Maintenance in a can, might help with reducing tendency of the pistons to stick in the caliper bores. It's not unusual to see uneven pad wear, but it won't correct itself. You need to monitor and maintain the components in the system so they work as well as they can.

Use some degreaser on the back of your power steering pump area. Doesn't look like a new weep. Run it and see if you can better identify where is the source of oil.

Run different nuts on the turbo. Try cone-lock or Wurth. Use high tensile washers under them. Expect they will come loose and periodically check. Definitely do a spanner check before every track day. And take your spanners to check on the day after a couple of runs. Don't forget some good gloves to prevent burns because things get mighty hot.

[CEF33Y]

Also, get some of the nissan tab washers, these things

I've never had my turbo nuts come loose. Make sure you've got a genuine manifold to turbo gasket and you'll never have to touch those nuts again.

[CEF33Y]

Actually, just zoomed in on your photo, seems you already have those tab washers, Not sure what's going on, might be something to do with the spacer.

Do you have the exhaust mount to gbox cross member? Flex joint?

Sometimes excess load from exhaust can assist nuts working loose.

Edited March 3, 2016 by CEF33Y

[V28VX37]

On the g'box (25det) oil I just use castrol vmx80.

3 years of daily driving and prob 3 or 4 drift days a yr, box still feels the same. Changed every 20k.

Previously used redline, on a box that had a near dead 2nd gear syncro, and it made the problem almost go away.

But I concur with the above, if you're box is still good, don't use redline.

Ok cool I'll look into the VMX80.

As mentioned I haven't had any issues with Redline (except that it likes spilling out without a breather hose ) and I chose to put it in originally since the R34 box I put in as part of my manual conversion was an unknown quantity. The box shifts well but it's definitely not pristine so hard to say how it would go with a more 'standard' oil.

^^ +1 for VMX. Although I'd suggest it's ham fisted + rushed gear changes that kill gearboxes, not oil. Good road car gearbox, not a racing box. Don't treat it like its got a dog gearset and things will last significantly longer. Right spec oil and it will last longer again.

Suggest you remove the brake rotors and run a wire wheel on the flange faces for both the hub and rotor. Ensure all scale and other buildup is removed. Put a very thin smear of silver anti seize on both surfaces.

Get a can of brake assembly lube and slip the nozzle extender under the caliper dust boots. Give it a squirt. Maintenance in a can, might help with reducing tendency of the pistons to stick in the caliper bores. It's not unusual to see uneven pad wear, but it won't correct itself. You need to monitor and maintain the components in the system so they work as well as they can.

Use some degreaser on the back of your power steering pump area. Doesn't look like a new weep. Run it and see if you can better identify where is the source of oil.

Run different nuts on the turbo. Try cone-lock or Wurth. Use high tensile washers under them. Expect they will come loose and periodically check. Definitely do a spanner check before every track day. And take your spanners to check on the day after a couple of runs. Don't forget some good gloves to prevent burns because things get mighty hot.

I agree that shifting probably kills boxes more than the oil ... except if it's an auto, and the oil's never been changed, which is probably most of them

With the brakes, BrakesDirect reckon that wear is fine and to be expected since I didn't machine the rotors. I'll keep an eye on it for the next little while until the pads wear in a bit more. I hear what you're saying about cleaning under the rotors - I did all of that when I put the new DBA rotors in in late 2014 and they haven't been off the car since. Also since the disc wear looks the same on both sides I don't think it's an anomaly.

Good suggestions regarding the brake assembly lube too, and the turbo nuts! I'll get some better fasteners.

Also, get some of the nissan tab washers, these things

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I've never had my turbo nuts come loose. Make sure you've got a genuine manifold to turbo gasket and you'll never have to touch those nuts again.

Yep got them, they were intact and bent against the nuts, and the nuts still came loose...

Actually, just zoomed in on your photo, seems you already have those tab washers, Not sure what's going on, might be something to do with the spacer.

Do you have the exhaust mount to gbox cross member? Flex joint?

Sometimes excess load from exhaust can assist nuts working loose.

Yep I think you're right, it's probably the spacer. Also given that the turbo is a HyperGear ATR43SS2, which is much bigger than heavier than the standard turbo, and sitting at the end of the spacer to make it fit, there's a lot more force on the studs and nuts than with the stock setup. Given this and the significant temperature changes the nuts can work themselves loose, one of the SAU guys at Calder said that this is really common.

Yes exhaust is hooked into the cross member near the cat, but it doesn't have a flex joint.

I think locking nuts + checking at the track is the go.

Thanks guys!

[V28VX37]

A bit more on the brake shims, there are two shims in there, this type:

And then also a metallic 'half width' one, which I'm guessing is the anti-squeal shim? It's roughly like in this sketch:

...

Could that shim be causing wear like that? It's on the outer edge so it would make sense that there's more clamping on that side?

Here are the two shims piled up, so listing from the top:

1. Locking clip – top left corner
2. Anti-squeal shim (?) – the one the is only 2/3 of the width of the pad, and narrows slightly towards the bottom
3. Cooling shim (?) – the one in the photo above, with the 8 cutouts/slits
4. Brake pad

You can see that the pistons clamp (partially) against the anti-squeal shim, and since that's only 2/3 of the pad width there would be more pressure on the outside of the disc, right?

This is how the shims came on all four front pads so I assume it's the correct setup?

[75coupe]

I dont even use the std shims anymore, use project mu shims, its one shim and its coated in a rubber compound to absorb frequency (that causes squeal)

The pads will probably wear in to contact the rotor surface, just give them a hard time.

My turbo to manifold nuts came loose at track once, i tightened them up when hot and never had a prob since, no locking tabs or special nuts, no flex joints.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Here are the two shims piled up, so listing from the top:

1. Locking clip – top left corner
3. Anti-squeal shim (?) – the one the is only 2/3 of the width of the pad, and narrows slightly towards the bottom
5. Cooling shim (?) – the one in the photo above, with the 8 cutouts/slits
7. Brake pad

You can see that the pistons clamp (partially) against the anti-squeal shim, and since that's only 2/3 of the pad width there would be more pressure on the outside of the disc, right?

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This is how the shims came on all four front pads so I assume it's the correct setup?

that's right man... maybe surface of piston and/or pad had some debris on it? causing it to sit funny?

[V28VX37]

that's right man... maybe surface of piston and/or pad had some debris on it? causing it to sit funny?

Great thanks for confirming!

Yeah I'd buy the debris theory if it wasn't both sides exactly the same.. But yeah Brakes Direct reckon it'll be fine and even out over time so I think I'll just keep an eye on it.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

you can run without the shims to rule it out.. but be prepared for race car squeal city lol...

they're god awful without the shims.

My Brembo brakes drove me nuts doing just 1x test lap around the neighbourhood. Will be ordering Project Mu shims for them (Brembos don't have shims)