M35 Turbo Rebuild Confusion

[TALWill]

Hi all,

Before running me out of town and onto the search button please hear me out.

There is a fair bit of info on here about turbos and some of it is quite old. I'm not big into turbo stuff, vintage 2 stroke bikes are my thing, so a lot of the info on here gets me all turned about. Over time stuff changes and the bank of knowledge builds, so what was epic in a 2011 post might be old hat now. So with that in mind I would like to ask a couple of questions about rebuilding my M35s turbo:

I love my wagon but it's not a speed project. I want to keep it with stock lag or less.

1) is there an off the shelf part to replace the core of the origional turbo that is close to stock?

2) if not what is the current choice of hi flow rebuilds to suit a car that is keeping a stock computer and injectors?

3) other than replacing the dump pipe cat with one of Scotties is there anything else I should do to get the most out of the stock setup?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to help

[Daleo]

Hi all,

Before running me out of town and onto the search button please hear me out.

There is a fair bit of info on here about turbos and some of it is quite old. I'm not big into turbo stuff, vintage 2 stroke bikes are my thing, so a lot of the info on here gets me all turned about. Over time stuff changes and the bank of knowledge builds, so what was epic in a 2011 post might be old hat now. So with that in mind I would like to ask a couple of questions about rebuilding my M35s turbo:

I love my wagon but it's not a speed project. I want to keep it with stock lag or less.

1) is there an off the shelf part to replace the core of the origional turbo that is close to stock?

2) if not what is the current choice of hi flow rebuilds to suit a car that is keeping a stock computer and injectors?

3) other than replacing the dump pipe cat with one of Scotties is there anything else I should do to get the most out of the stock setup?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to help

Nothing wrong with asking questions; you'd be better to have a chat with Scottynm35.

He has all the pieces of the puzzle that you need, and the new highflow that he and Rick have put together may just what you need.

[mister.x]

I really feel like most of the stagea m35 threads end in ask scotty. Surely scotty would be sick of answering everyone questions, personally I feel bad asking him.

Atleast it'd make more sense to publicly post the answers so that when someone uses the search tool it doesn't end in this.

[KiwiRS4T]

AS the OP has noted its a movable feast... GCG were the go at one point but better alternatives keep turning up... so yes read the threads but asking someone who is up with the play is probably a good idea - particularly someone who may be in a position to help.

[Jetwreck]

I really feel like most of the stagea m35 threads end in ask scotty. Surely scotty would be sick of answering everyone questions, personally I feel bad asking him.

Atleast it'd make more sense to publicly post the answers so that when someone uses the search tool it doesn't end in this.

so what were you hoping it ended with?

You have a guy who has bent over backwards for nearly 10years to develop stuff for us and pretty much given everyone info including me at no cost and just wants the best products for us all....and to say the least has achieved the best results in all directions.

yours comment just make me feel like you sound ungrateful.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Jetwreck

[BoostdR]

1) An R33 GTST core can be used. I also have a M35 OEM core spare if you need one. They are getting hard to find these days

2)Plenty of options for stock replacement. Intense RS from Scotty or a highflow from Tao at hypergear. Just make sure you stay ball bearing as the bush bearing are dogs to drive.

3)Intake is ok up to about 220awkw. Block off the BOV bleed hole

Matt

[scotty nm35]

Just make sure you stay ball bearing as the bush bearing are dogs to drive.

This is why you need to talk to me, Matt infers the Intense bush core turbo on my car is shite, but it actually out performs any turbo I have seen fitted to an M35, or nearly any vehicle I have slapped a turbo on for response. With the auto it makes it a little hard to compare dyno graphs, but it is easily realised when you drive the car.

Unfortunately you get that online and everyone thinks their car is the fastest rocket ship once they change a few parts. The difference is I know what parts work together and what parts fail, I fit them on a daily basis, and I have nothing to gain by pushing garbage products, it just wastes my time and that of the customer.

I know for a fact if our mate Tao didn't give Matt a free turbo, Matt wouldn't be singing his praises at all. I guess it's like forum politics, and if anyone bags out an SAU trader their post just gets deleted, hence why it's probably better to talk on the phone. I am just about over this forum, for many reasons, so it may be the only way to contact me soon...

[Daleo]

so what were you hoping it ended with?

You have a guy who has bent over backwards for nearly 10years to develop stuff for us and pretty much given everyone info including me at no cost and just wants the best products for us all....and to say the least has achieved the best results in all directions.

yours comment just make me feel like you sound ungrateful.

I don't think he's meaning to sound ungrateful; people who don't know Scotty, won't realise what a wealth of knowledge he has, nor will they realise how keen he is to help other Stagea owners.

1) An R33 GTST core can be used. I also have a M35 OEM core spare if you need one. They are getting hard to find these days

2)Plenty of options for stock replacement. Intense RS from Scotty or a highflow from Tao at hypergear. Just make sure you stay ball bearing as the bush bearing are dogs to drive.

3)Intake is ok up to about 220awkw. Block off the BOV bleed hole

Matt

(2) That's not true at all; my bush bearing turbo is not a dog to drive, and plenty of others are using bush cored highflows.

[Tangles]

If I bought an M35 Stagea (never know!) I'd have it to Scotty NM35 in a flash. Without a second thought. Definitely played a big part in the progression of positive M35 tuning/products over the years.

When I grabbed my c34 stag way back when there were only a couple of fancy tiptronic S2's just starting to be imported into the country, and the M35 was years away from compliance. Its been good to watch the development from afar.

On a side note; obviously different engine, but Ive had both a bush hiflow & a BB-GT30 on my stag and both have their merits.

[BoostdR]

Wow. That got out of hand quickly. I did not infer your turbo Scotty was shite at all...even recommending it, didn't even know it was bush. To be honest I was referring to the Hypergear SS2 bush bearing being a dog to drive. And the fact that all bush bearing turbos have crappy transient response characteristics. If anyone is happy with their bush bearing turbo it is (A) very small and masks the added rotational friction or (B) has wheels and housings that match well enough to mask the added friction. Ball bearing will improve drivability every time and more so Ceramic. As for Hypergear giving me a free turbo that's not true either. I wasn't happy with my bush bearing SS2 so Tao offered to rebuild it to a configuration that I wanted. I've always said it like it is and backed up my thoughts with log data. I remember when I first talked to you Scotty on here. I asked for info and you sledged me saying "no one would give you that knowledge that took years to work out" I said that's not very information sharing like the forum is designed for and said I would work it out myself then post the information up for everyone to use. Which I've done just that. You did help me eventually with some wiring and I am thankful for that but don't sledge me with made up info.

Not sure why you guys(select few) get so defensive of my comments all the time, like I have my own business and are going to steal work off you. Is it that Scotty has been the go to m35 man for so long and now the knowledge base is widening....For the record I work for the AirForce. Chill out I have no financial interest reflected in any of my comments. I was pretty vocal when my bush SS2 Hypergear turbo wasn't performing. Backing my comments up with logs and video. Tao is now making every effort to make better and from the learning curve is improving the whole range.

Matt

[hypergear]

BoostR is happy to help in doing lot of developments and he is very experienced in those vehicles.

For a RB25det I won't give a dame wither its Bush or Ball bearings.

Due to a lake of information and feedback from the the initial development partner, There has been a misunderstanding of VQ25det's engine behavior. After personally owning two M35s and doing evaluations, I will only be fitting Garrett CBB Cores in a M35s, first the throttle response of a bush core is no where near to it, 2ndly CBB cores are capable of acting against much higher thrust load, thirdly they are happy to run hold any where from 10psi to 20psi using a boost controller with no boost creep, and this is what you want using stock ECU and factory injectors.

You are welcome to ring for a quick chat and weigh up all your options.

[TALWill]

Thanks to all for the info and I'll be making a few calls. I posted in another post about a turbo I have that might be better than I thought. Also this R33 core sounds interesting. To google I go!

My 2 cents regarding everything else: I am on here a lot for info, but often don't know enough to contribute. I've been around motorcycle and speedway racing for 30+ years and will simply say that this is the way of so many forums/groups/clubs.

There are many ways to skin a cat and I have always noticed that the most knowledgeable people tend to be the most passionate about their conclusions and the ones with the most time/money/life invested. I really appreciate anyone who takes the time to share that information and just accept that sometimes passionate people rub each other the wrong way. It would be so boring if we all made the same car the same way!

Thanks for the help

[scotty nm35]

Due to a lake of information and feedback from the the initial development partner, There has been a misunderstanding of VQ25det's engine behavior.

Development partner? I just feel like a shafted customer. There are only so many hits you can take and still remain loyal to a brand, I thought I did quite well to last as long as I did considering the constant failures and lack of warranty.

I would have thought a development partner would have some input and perhaps some financial backing while testing products, I was not given either. In fact when I kept suggesting a BB core you advised against it many times. So glad I have moved on to more professional and knowledgeable turbo specialists now.

Will, there are many companies making highflow turbo's, Precision in Sydney, GCG, Hypergear, Intense, ATP and many more over the years, some have been developed for power, some are simple highflow replacement turbo's. I have seen most in action and unfortunately none were well matched until recently. Shoving wheels into housings is easy, developing the correct turbo for the application is much harder and installation and tuning costs skyrocket quickly. Take your time and research what you might need, it's a difficult turbo to replace and it's not something you want to do twice, or multiple times in some cases.

[hypergear]

Scotty, Those issues with older M35 high flow could've been sorted back in 2012 when you given prototypes to trail and I've clearly mentioned that I have no M35 back ground knowledge. And you should have never distributed any of those before a perfected end result is reached, with knowing this particular high flow is engineered for your own workshop's consumption.

Unfortunately feed backs from you have steered me into a different understanding what VQ25det actually is, I don't felt like to blame you, because I can't be more disappointed in the output of what this motor package my self. I did not go to Garret back then as some of them I've used in RBs did not last. The technology and updates through products that's available today is very different.

Today I own two M35 as test cars and I'm very aware of what older issues lays. I've personally evaluated a number of Garrett CHRAs happy with chosen models performance and reliability, they will be all I'm selling.

Further M35 turbo developments projects are still on going, through my self and another knowledgeable members whom are currently helping.

[scotty nm35]

Scotty, Those issues with older M35 high flow could've been sorted back in 2012 when you given prototypes to trail and I've clearly mentioned that I have no M35 back ground knowledge. And you should have never distributed any of those before a perfected end result is reached, with knowing this particular high flow is engineered for your own workshop's consumption.

Unfortunately feed backs from you have steered me into a different understanding what VQ25det actually is, I don't felt like to blame you, because I can't be more disappointed in the output of what this motor package my self. I did not go to Garret back then as some of them I've used in RBs did not last. The technology and updates through products that's available today is very different.

Today I own two M35 as test cars and I'm very aware of what older issues lays. I've personally evaluated a number of Garrett CHRAs happy with chosen models performance and reliability, they will be all I'm selling.

Further M35 turbo developments projects are still on going, through my self and another knowledgeable members whom are currently helping.

I was not a prototype evaluation engineer, nor was I ever asked to provide feedback. I was a customer, and a customer should not have to evaluate or test anything. You were the one selling turbo's on Ebay, I assumed wrongly that you had already tested them and they were suitable for the task they were designed for. After many failures without reason and a severe lack of communication, or should I say bullshit on your part, I had to move on. That's about as far as I went with it mate, anything else was an assumption on your part.

If you continue using fellow members for your testing, can you please explain that to them, and the fact they will have no financial compensation if the test unit isn't as they expected or fails prematurely, otherwise you are being deceitful towards them as I feel you were to my customers and myself.

As for turbo building, there are many companies who can shove a Garrett core into our stock housings, so shop around guys. Precision and GCG have been doing this for years, although their failure rate is not acceptable in my opinion either. The BB Garretts can't handle the thrust loads at even moderate boost in our housings, this has already been proven without your help.

[hypergear]

You are not just a customer, you've been in the development and distribution of this project since 2012 everyone knows that. Of course you were asked to provide feedbacks based on those prototypes and if alterations should be made as you have the car. We always had good discussions, I even invited you and set for meals, there has never been a communication problem. I work through issues, and I see tradition T3x Bush bearing core been a problem. I'm moving on and will only be selling Garrett BB for it.

There is no need to go through with this discussion ever time a M35 turbo thread pops up. Simply supply supporting data and pricing of your offering, then let the customers decide for them selves.

[Daleo]

Wow.

I guess history can be rewritten.

I thought the victors were the one's whose version get told...

[Beregron]

There is no victor in this discussion....

We all lose.

Best of luck though Will... post results with whatever you end up going for. I'd be interested for sure