Planning Engine Out Build (-9s, Oil Control Etc.) - Rb26

[JGTC]

Hi Gents,

I've sold my daily to free up some money to pull the motor out of my R34 to give it a once over. I am just looking to get another set of eyes on the build to make sure i have all the bases covered.

My intention to be able to use the car on track days, as well as to maximise on labour while the motor is out.

I've highlighted my 3 concerns in RED, also interested as to anything else that is worth doing while the car's guts are out

Car is a '02 R34 GTR M-spec

Current set-up

Compression was 175 +/- 2 across all 6

Mileage: 105,000kms

Currently tuned to 267.9rwkw @ 16psi (front driveshaft removed to preserve the front diff) by MRC in Castle Hill.

Exhaust / Intake
- Amuse R1 Titan Extra cat-back exhaust 90mm
- Apexi Super Catalyzer Cat
- Mines Pro front pipe (2 x 70mm into 80mm)

- Tomei dump pipes
- Nismo inlet piping
- OEM Airbox with Nismo Snorkel

Ignition / Fuel
- Sard 650cc top-feed Injectors
- Splitfire coilpacks
- Wiring specialties coilpack harness
- Nismo 255L fuel pump

Engine / Turbo
- Garrett 14psi Actuators

- Stock Turbos

Proposed Worklist

Engine

Turbos

- Garrett -9s (purchased 2nd hand)

AFMs

- Nismo AFMs

Cams/Cam Gears

- Standard camshafts

- Jun Cam Gears (purchased 2nd hand)

Engine & Gearbox mounts

- Nismo mounts

Oil Management

- pretty much everything listed here, lol http://hioctaneracing.com/blog/2010/11/19/the-reality-of-the-rb26-oiling-system-part-2.html

- 9L Extended sump - Hi-Octane

- Oil/Air Seperator - Hi-Octane

- Rear cylinder head oil drain fitting - Hi-Octane

- Cam Cover Baffle - Hi-Octane

- Catch Can - Hi-Octane

- N1 Oil pump + Billet Oil pump Gears - Hi-Octane (is this combo the most suitable form my application? The next one up would be the Nitto Oil Pump)

Cooling

- PWR Radiator

- Is an oil cooler justified at this point? I was thinking about a setup from Golebys parts? - http://www.golebysparts.com.au/parts/browse/171/nissan-rb20-25-26/oil-cooler-kits

Block

- is it worth forking out the extra to forge the thing at this point? This is the area i know the least about

- Pistons

- Rods

- Rings

- Bearings

- Head Gasket

Gearbox/Diffs

- Overhaul Transmission and Rear Diff - incl. bearings, seals, gaskets, syncro rings (generally 1st 2nd and 3rd)

- performed at Award Gearbox and Diff services in Seven Hills, NSW - http://awarddiffgearboxservices.com.au/

Misc.

- Major service incl. N1 water pump

- ancillary belts

- New hoses/lines

Some of the threads i have been through and referenced;

http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/110680-oil-control-in-rbs-for-circuit-drag-or-drift/

http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/364449-n1-oil-pump-into-rb26-to-prevent-big-bearing-problems/

http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/429930-1994-r32-gtr-stock-to-320kw/page-2

http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/419857-shopping-list-for-500hp-rb26/

http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/236467-definitive-guide-to-building-300-330awkw-gt-r/page-3?&&p=4275763&hl=definitive%20guide&fromsearch=1#entry4275763

http://www.gtrusablog.com/2010/05/real-basics-nissan-skyline-gt-r-r32-r33.html

http://hioctaneracing.com/blog/2010/11/19/the-reality-of-the-rb26-oiling-system-part-2.html

Some pics to entertain the non-readers

Edited May 9, 2016 by squareznboxez

[zebra]

Dont let the nissan out!!

Leave the short motor alone unless you plan for something way bigger than -9s

Rear head drain bs isnt needed.

Have a vent from the sump welded in and plumb to the catch can

[JGTC]

Yeah fair call man, my concern i suppose is the risk associated with leaving the whole thing in there while just replacing the turbos and wicking it up to 20psi, my fear is it will cost more when she decides to give out under load.

Dont let the nissan out!!

Leave the short motor alone unless you plan for something way bigger than -9s

Rear head drain bs isnt needed.

Have a vent from the sump welded in and plumb to the catch can

[r32-25t]

Seems like a lot of money wasted on a -9 setup

[JGTC]

It's a fair bit of coin yeah, but whay makes you say it's a waste? I don't really plan on going bigger turbo-wise and i'd like to lean on the car for the odd track session/hill climb.

Although not cheap, it does seem cost effective to have it all done at the one time i would have thought.

Seems like a lot of money wasted on a -9 setup

Edited May 9, 2016 by squareznboxez

[UWISSH!]

Atleast put a stroker in it if you going to go through all the trouble of pulling it down

[Hadouken]

Look at fatz for inspiration on how much the stock motors can handle

[iruvyouskyrine]

Check simonR32's build in the Motorsport builds section. 2+ years at 700ish hp and a LOT of track work at 2bar

[KiwiRS4T]

Nice car! What is your power goal? Engine seems in good nick - I wouldn't bother pulling it out at this stage. People are making a lot more power than you currently have on an unopened engine. You don't mention ECU - I assume you have a Power FC.

Have a read of the oil control thread (or say the last half of it). Rear head drain is not. Octane don't mention a restrictor on the oil supply with an aftermarket oil pump.

If you are worried about thrashing it on the track make sure the cooling system is up to scratch. Invest in DataLogit for PFC and if your oil temps are getting too high get an oil cooler. Use a high quality synthetic oil and most important of all get a pointer to a really good tuner and don't cheap out there (BTW looks like you were on 4 wheel dyno - no need to remove the front drive shaft).

[JGTC]

Thanks mate, the HKS 2.8l step zero kit seems pretty sweet, it would add at least $3K in addition to forging the block though.

http://www.rhdjapan.com/hks-capacity-upgrade-kit-rb26dett-2-8l-step-zero-87-0-full-kit.html

Atleast put a stroker in it if you going to go through all the trouble of pulling it down

Thanks, i've read bits of fatz thread, but will sit down and digest both these threads

Look at fatz for inspiration on how much the stock motors can handle

Check simonR32's build in the Motorsport builds section. 2+ years at 700ish hp and a LOT of track work at 2bar

re: power goals

I'm looking to just make the most of the -9s as it will be predominantly street driven, i don't see myself moving up them them. It'd would be great to go down the flex-fuel path, but i see that as another investment for another time as i'll need ECU, injectors, fuel rail/pumps, sensors etc.

also yes car came with Power FC and the apexi boost control module

re: oil control and tuner

Yeah thanks i have bookmarked your page on the collars and restrictiors, I think for the cost of the golebys oil cooler, its worth doing. I've decided to go the Nitto oil pump instead of the N1 + Hi-Octane billet gears, car currently runs standard Redline 10w-40 (non-racing version)

It was MRC's preference to drop the front drive shaft, their feedback was as the front drive isn't full-time like Evos and WRXs, running it in 4WD can cause the front diff to burn out.

Nice car! What is your power goal? Engine seems in good nick - I wouldn't bother pulling it out at this stage. People are making a lot more power than you currently have on an unopened engine. You don't mention ECU - I assume you have a Power FC.

Have a read of the oil control thread (or say the last half of it). Rear head drain is not. Octane don't mention a restrictor on the oil supply with an aftermarket oil pump.

If you are worried about thrashing it on the track make sure the cooling system is up to scratch. Invest in DataLogit for PFC and if your oil temps are getting too high get an oil cooler. Use a high quality synthetic oil and most important of all get a pointer to a really good tuner and don't cheap out there (BTW looks like you were on 4 wheel dyno - no need to remove the front drive shaft).

Edited May 10, 2016 by squareznboxez

[GTSBoy]

It was MRC's preference to drop the front drive shaft, their feedback was as the front drive isn't full-time like Evos and WRXs, running it in 4WD can cause the front diff to burn out.

I have to say, that doesn't make the least little bit of sense. Someone is thinking at that problem with the wrong part of their brain.

[KiwiRS4T]

^^^Perhaps a pointer to finding another tuner - people have run up 900AWKW and more on a 4wd dyno without "burning out " their front diffs.

[sneakey pete]

Dont bother doing a rebuild, do do headgasket and upgraded head studs. Can lift a stock 26 head with 20 psi. Fit the oil restrictor on the block while the head is off.

The hi octane sump has a provision to attach a return line, make that a catch can vent, that seems to be a key in helping prevent oil blowby issues.

For what you want n1 pump should be plenty.

Do do the oil cooler, but I'd go for one with a thermostat. Also consider removing the water to oil cooler. You make find the golbeys one hard to fit with that length of hose, the popular greddy/hks ones mount below the passenger headlight as its got room and airflow.

Also do a quaife front diff while it's all apart, heck leave the gearbox till it gets worn if it's still good they are not that hard to remove. Rear diff wise don't bother rebuilding the a-lsd, get a proper mechanic one.

Apart from that, replace all consumable bits. Water lines (under the plenum) also get a good quality braided line kit for the turbo feeds. Do all relevant seals on the engine while you can get in there good.

[JGTC]

Thanks Pete, yeh i think i'll try track down a Greddy unit.

Good advice on the diffs, i will just continue using/servicing them as normal until they give out and then replace with mechanical units

Dont bother doing a rebuild, do do headgasket and upgraded head studs. Can lift a stock 26 head with 20 psi. Fit the oil restrictor on the block while the head is off.
The hi octane sump has a provision to attach a return line, make that a catch can vent, that seems to be a key in helping prevent oil blowby issues.
For what you want n1 pump should be plenty.

Do do the oil cooler, but I'd go for one with a thermostat. Also consider removing the water to oil cooler. You make find the golbeys one hard to fit with that length of hose, the popular greddy/hks ones mount below the passenger headlight as its got room and airflow.

Also do a quaife front diff while it's all apart, heck leave the gearbox till it gets worn if it's still good they are not that hard to remove. Rear diff wise don't bother rebuilding the a-lsd, get a proper mechanic one.

Apart from that, replace all consumable bits. Water lines (under the plenum) also get a good quality braided line kit for the turbo feeds. Do all relevant seals on the engine while you can get in there good.

[sneakey pete]

Note, as the front diff is in the sump... which isn't removable unless you pull the entire engine out*, and given you need to strip the diff out of it to do the extension, its very advisable to do the front diff upgrade when you've got it apart. The rear, however, takes about 15 minutes to get out, hence my comment of doing it at a different time. Just bleed the A-LSD system if you feel its performance isn't up to it, any air in there really makes it play up i'm told.

[GTSBoy]

His OP said it was an M-Spec. Not a V-Spec.

[KiwiRS4T]

Thanks Pete, yeh i think i'll try track down a Greddy unit.

Good advice on the diffs, i will just continue using/servicing them as normal until they give out and then replace with mechanical units

Rear is a mechanical LSD - front is an open diff and it is possible to swap it for a Quaife LSD with the engine in place.

Hmm just checked and it may be that the M spec also has the V-Spec type computer controlled rear diff .

[r32-25t]

I thought an Mspec was a vspec with a few extra luxuries

[Count Grantleyish]

I thought an Mspec was a vspec with a few extra luxuries

Bingo.

OP, all this stuff for dash 9 turbos? Nah, keep the $ in your pocket until it blows up or going huge HP.

I have same turbos in mine on stock motor, it's still alive after 3 years and counting.

[JGTC]

Yeah fair call, instead of forging the internals, the money seems better spent on the front diff. I still think there is value in pulling out the motor for a once-over for gaskets, seals and lines, as well as the oil control.

Regarding the front diff, what are the value-options out there, Kaaz, Quaife?

http://justjap.com/quaife-atb-helical-lsd-front-differential-nissan-skyline-r32-r33-r34-gt-r.html

http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/343375-anyone-using-a-quaife-diff/

Bingo.

OP, all this stuff for dash 9 turbos? Nah, keep the $ in your pocket until it blows up or going huge HP.

I have same turbos in mine on stock motor, it's still alive after 3 years and counting.

From what i've gathered, the M-spec share the same platform as the V-spec 2 (larger 322mm rear rotors), but has;

- Ripple-control dampers - slightly quicker damping for more neutral handling (over the V-spec 1 & 2s bias for oversteer)

- Thicker rear stabilizer bar - combined with the shocks to balance the handling

- Heated leather seats

- Slightly different leather for the steering wheel

- 40kgs more than the base BNR34

http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/76852-various-r34-gtr-qs-m-spec-vs-v-spec-etc/

I thought an Mspec was a vspec with a few extra luxuries

Edited May 11, 2016 by squareznboxez