$2-3k Coilovers - Dms Street, Mca Red & Bilstein Pss9

[JGTC]

Yeah big reason i'm leaning towards MCA is the potential to get the valving right (i really know not much about good/poor damping/valving). What were your running on your 33? (EDIT: sorry just saw you were running BCs on the 33 also), I think potentially i could also go the X-R purples and spend the money on a intercooler/radiator (-9 setup).

Edited June 17, 2016 by squareznboxez

[Hadouken]

33 also had BC's.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

BC = Because Cheap/China/Crap

[niZmO_Man]

Basic Coilover?

[JGTC]

Another Aus company i was looking at was Shockworks, which feature progressive valving (with chassis specific valve-coding) and custom spring rates. the housings are manufactured to spec from Korea, they also offer free spring exchange within the first few weeks, and re-valving/servicing is only $80/strut/.

Featuring a 45mm piston, digressive damping, inverted monotube fronts and great build quality at a reasonable price it's an upgrade that works with reinforcing and alignment mods, but due the the digressive damping, stock sways are highly recommended for both street and track use, so the chassis is not unduly tied down and maximum travel & grip is possible. They control body lean in cornering, pitching under acceleration and braking, and are practically impossible to bottom out... The springs are reasonably soft at 7kg/mm per corner iirc...

The only R-chassis feedback i read was Pete(Fatz) was able to gain 2 secs changing from shockworks to Racepace re-valved Teins.

Some reference threads for anyone interested;

Specific development thread for Liberties

http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=26090

Brett from Shockworks also consulted to FPV to develop their shocks

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11388486

BMW 1 series owners comparing Shockworks and MCA

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1227865

Edited June 22, 2016 by squareznboxez

[JGTC]

I pulled the trigger on the MCA Reds, In the end Josh had the best feedback and understanding of my application, also the fact they had done specific R&D on R34 GT-Rs.

Below was the feedback regarding the final spec for the coilovers.

1. As the car is a weekend driver, what do you think is best for a performance orientated tarmac/targa configuration that will improve on the X-Rs?

Josh: Yep I can do a better setup for you with Reds than X-Rs.

2. Would there be value at all in also purchasing an extra set of springs for if/when i decide to take the car to a circuit? ie. Eastern creek/wakefield, allowing me to swap over and dial in for track?

Josh: Yes I think the extra springs is a very good idea because these springs would be a bit lacking on a circuit when pushing hard. What tyres would you run on a circuit? My normal circuit setup would be 15kg front and 11kg rear.

3. I also forgot to add to the below, I want to retain the standard ride height of the stock suspension, is this possible and will it affect the valving at all?

Josh: Standard height will be higher than our suggested height, but probably not by too much.. but there is plenty of adjustment so just see how that goes for you.

Final spec:

So we'd be going with with a Red Series setup, valving wise I'm thinking a near circuit setup on the front to help with the support of the car, but a bit softer in the rear to help with the ride quality and bump handling.

Spring rates of 12kg front and 5kg rear, along with another pair of 14kg front and 10kg rear assuming you wont be on a tyre like Hankook Z221 or Advan A050 for the track.. if you are, we could go 15/11.

[JGTC]

I also contacted Heasmans for their input on a set-up, they offer a re-valving service for their PSS9 coilovers to suit a specific solution ie. Track or Targa, this will cost around $900 on top of the cost of the standard units $2200.

Above this they also offer a Clubsport series which are built from the ground up to suit your application of Motorsport (used in WTAC, allbeit similar specification will come closer to $10K), pricing wise for a 2-way adjustable (pss9s are 1-way) witth remote canisters were around $5200, which seem to be a nice alternative to the MCA Gold series pricing wise for custom built coilovers.

[Duncan]

Just for reference, my full weight 32 GTR (race/rally) has 450 front and 350 rear springs, which is about 8F/6R. Those rates quoted by Josh are pretty extreme (15/11 for the same hankook tyre) and likely to impact traction over bumps. I'd suggest you pm SydneyKid (Gary) to discuss an alternative view.

[JGTC]

Thanks Duncan, yeah even 14/10 seems high for the track, but i think they are catered to MCAs valving. Out of curiousity, what sort of coilovers were you running in your R32? Funny enough i was trawling through your thread yesterday to try and find them haha.

[Duncan]

I've been running with SydneyKid's revalved Bilstein (the non adjustable ones) for about 10 years now. Never been tempted to change them, the car handles beautifully....great traction and totally predictable

[Duncan]

Oh BTW I'm sure Josh knows what he is talking about, and I'm sure their damping suits the spring rates; MCA have been getting good results. But there are more than one set of opinions out there, and good reasons for each side....

The Evo I ran at Bathurst had MCAs in them and it generally handled well, but it was surprisingly soft in the rear and rolled into oversteer in long corners. I don't know the spring rates but I guess they were much softer than usual for MCA....having said that the car with that setup is very quick at smaller tracks like Wakefield

[JGTC]

Yeah there's definitely many different trains of thought on the subject, that's for sure. The fact you've had the bilsteins for 10yrs speaks volumes about them for sure.

I actually had a second hand set of Sydneykid's bilsteins w/ whiteline springs on my R34 GT non-turbo, the ride was equivalent to stock, very compliant.

[Roy]

What tyres do you run on your GTR Duncan? I noticed a lot of different going from RE55s to AO50s and i need way more spring with the AO50s, or a lot more camber etc because of the roll the car developed and hammering outside corner. I feel I already have enough camber so spring is the obvious choice.

Also, I suppose those springing the money for MCAs doing "track work" may these days have abit of aero as well meaning they probably running more spring

[bri73y]

My 32 runs 1450lb front, 1200lb rear. Measured and specified by Dejan at Envirage.

It's fairly up there!! Car is surprisingly compliant even at Wakefield.

[JGTC]

Just updating this thread as I've now had the suspension in the car for a little while.

My MCA Reds are valved for hard street orientated driving, hillclimb/tarmac rally etc., spring rates were 12kg front / 5kg rear.  Car is stock in all other suspension areas (arms/bushes/swaybars) and is running 0.9° negative camber on the front (unsure of toe details) Height is very similar to stock and has been corner balanced (total weight is 1,600kg exactly)

Car has been great on Sydney roads, more compliant and less jarring at the speed limit over the stock M-spec suspension that came with the car (common misconception is the M-spec ripple-control dampers are for comfort, but are just as aggressive as V-spec dampers but add to them in the respect of high-speed damping over a street surface), but at the same time doesn't bottom out in crests/dips and is noticeably more stable under braking and turn-in when moving quickly.

I drive primarily on the old pacific highway with plenty of dips and uneven/changing surfaces, and have done a few sedate drives on the Comenarra parkway

From all accounts (not my own experience) they are more comparable to the Bilstein Clubsport package which is $5K+which provides custom valving and spring rates, the PSS9 coilovers are a factory preset to suit the model of car (which is also no doubt research and a good balance for street/track)

In addition to this there has been some dissapointing service out of DMS recently see below;

Also below is an account from the evo forums in regards to weighing up the the differences between MCA X series and Red series on the street;

MCA Red short talk long read limit review; 
on the street only and it has all of my praise.

Foreword: Keep in mind I only got to drive it for two short spirited runs nothing over 110km/hr really but I got to test it with a few heavy weight shifts to see how the car handled while respecting it was not my own car. I have to reserve track review to someone else. Im also accustomed to driving a stiff set up on my own car with most bracing minus cage. To memory I've personally had stock suspension, RS-R lowered, BC golds, BC ER, Cusco Zero, Zero2R, HKS hipermax performer and DMS 50mm but probably driven every regular entry level coilover on the street, Tein SS, Tein monoflex, Pedders XA, MCA blue, MCA XR etc etc.



So this review comes from a broad experience to help those deciding if its worth the extra coin in going further than settling for entry level suspension by investing in a more expensive system; particularly why the MCA Reds.

Context: So the car was a 6 equipped with MCA reds 10/11 kg, whiteline rear sway bar and the dampers were set at 4 clicks from hard and only has one adjustment per corner. Rolling on 17x8.5+30? 235/45/17 hankook RS3s and had a track orientated alignment. Front and rear strut braces and I could see front camber was all dialed in from the camber washers on the knuckles(a feature for Reds and onward only) as the camber tops were symmetric in the middle. The droop when jacked up was more than your entry 'coilovers' but still a lot less than stock. Lowered but not slammed, raked but not retarded, this car was proper function.

Firstly, driving normally it is very comfortable but it does have an odd small bounce and takes a while to settle on some occasions but I am very fussy to even notice - the dampers were set high but I did not feel the need to change them. I continued and purposely dip the wheels into minor potholes and sewer grates and it ate up all the impact like ass falling onto sofa. I took it a step further and jumped a few convex roundabouts at 50-60km/hr (the ones with 5cm step curved around that buses can go over) and the car didn't even think to 'hop' but glided over. I know for a fact cheap coilover dampers would suffer from the 'thud' going up and the typical rear 'plonk' dropping off even small discontinuities as such. The reds however don't see minor cracks or potholes and it is as if they're invisible to them. I ended up aiming for bumps because I was amused at how it damped them out. The body roll from the reds was very little - compared to the blues which I'd describe as boaty even with the 9/11 kg springs I drove on the street. Compared to a set of MCA XRs I drove the previous week, the reds were way flatter doing vigorous zig zags at 60km/hr locking arms on steering left to right. I took the opportunity to brake from just over 120km/hr on a downhill, again while respecting the owners car, and it stayed very flat to my surprise so I think the high speed dampers must be very good. On acceleration from slow speed I did get some understeer but it might be due to alignment rather than suspension. I would have liked if the Red series more if were bound/re-bound adjustable for better personalisation but you can see from my description prior that its pretty clear they have valving sorted right.

Overall I have nothing but praise for the MCA reds and I hope it might help someone save for reds. I'd be confident to say reds would wow any driver entering the aftermarket suspension world with the way it transforms your evo.

Edited November 24, 2016 by squareznboxez

[niZmO_Man]

"12kg springs" "Great on Sydney roads"
Don't hear that too often aye.
I'm pretty much set on some Reds for the GT-R when the time comes.

[JGTC]

Yeh look, it's firm, but there basically zero jarring and dislocation from my seat at the speed limit, which was a world of difference to the standard M-Spec suspension where i was consistently knocked around in my seat at road speeds with relief only when at spirited levels of driving.  I believe the ride quality has to do with the relaxed valving in the rear dampers.

From Josh@MCA

So we'd be going with with a Red Series setup, valving wise I'm thinking a near circuit setup on the front to help with the support of the car, but a bit softer in the rear to help with the ride quality and bump handling.

Edited November 24, 2016 by squareznboxez

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

let's just say I went front SK's Bilstein (non adjustable king spring) kit to MCA X-R kit with 10/7kg and they were more comfortable and shaved my lap times on the boat to 1m9s around Wakefield Park.

 

[DD-GTR]

Thread revival.

I have MCA BLUE in my EVO X and my GTR R33 (now sold) has MCA RACE PRIME with 14kg front and 8kg rear which is in between their recommended tarmac and circuit set up. The RACE PRIME even with a much stiffer set up drove better and dampened bumps on the street better than the blues.

I would say MCA know their stuff so dont be put off by the high spring rates.

I have now also ordered some MCA RED for my evo X  and I have gone with the same set up between MCA's tarmac and circuit rates. This works out to be 10kg springs front and rear so im expecting them to handle better on street and track than blues with the more sophisticated valving.

Edited June 17, 2018 by DD-GTR