Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[Griffin]

At what point does the standard rb25 manifold become a restriction? 

[Kinkstaah]

Given what I have just done to mine....don't go over 400KW with it...... damage report incoming.

[Griffin]

Please tell more

[Lithium]

9 hours ago, Kinkstaah said:

Given what I have just done to mine....don't go over 400KW with it...... damage report incoming.

I assume you are talking about the manifold.

Love the Turbo Killer avatar btw

[discopotato03]

I always thought along the lines of 300-330 rear wheel Kw on an RB25 with standard rods and pistons , it's why I wonder if a TS IW 7670 is a bit too much turbo . 

I don't have any volumetric efficiency figures for RB25s , they do seem to rev ok but factory manifolds were obviously intended for lower outputs with a turbo that was super restrictive on the hot side . Been a long time since I drove a standard turbo 25 but it was mediocre boost from around 2500 revs and all hisses whooshes etc .

This is why the HKS GTRS (GT2871R 0.64 AR T3) felt better or less restrictive anyway . The 30R was better again but introduced a "classic" bigger turbo feel and needed tuning (timing) strategies in the low rev part throttle ranges to make it feel good on the street again . I'm long past the stage where boost at part throttle and soft pedal revs is worth it because conventional turbos that do that compromise everything else . Doesn't mean modern twin scroll systems cant help here but the whole turbine speed exhaust gas pressure/velocity thing is the hardest part to get right - and everyones "right" differs . 

Geoff thanks heaps for the pics of the 7163 and 7064 on the RBs , gives us some packaging ideas . I'll talk to Scott at Insight again because he's tuned most of the EFR range and reckons 7064s are good . You say these have EMAP advantages over TS 7163s , important to me because in theory I could run more advanced timing in most places .

Thanks all cheers A .

  

[discopotato03]

Geoff at this stage I think the 0.92 TS 7064 is the best bet for me . I noted what you said about your Ecoboost 2.3L 7670 and where it comes into power .

I also like the idea of an around 3000 rev boost threshold and the slightly larger 0.92 AR turbine housing , surely this combination has to have it all over a single scroll 0.82 AR IW GT3076R . I'm trying not to have the big or small turbo feel and top end revs and power numbers aren't so important to me . 400-450 wheel Hp is fine but a broad spread of power and good part throttle running is essential .

Lastly that turbine housing coating you do , how much of a real world difference does it make keeping the radiated heat in check .

Be in touch cheers A .   

 

   

[Tom Tucker]

In my experience, I would look no further than a 7670 1.05 T4. On my 2.3L Evo, the thing was insane. 30 psi by 3750rpm, at 4000rpm it was making 250kw and 530nm of torque. Then went on to 410kw. But on 98 on 20psi, it was also perfect. Made 285kw, and ridiculously punchy.

There is no such thing as "too much turbo" with the 7670 when it is as responsive as that. I'd expect similar boost threshold on an RB25. I've sort of described it to people as GTX35 power for GTX2867 response.

[Griffin]

What was the bore and stroke of the 2.3? 

[SSM]

Here is my dynosheet with EFR 7064 T4 .92 internal wastegate.

RB26 is stock, fully balanced. 6Boost manifold, 3" exhaust. Bosch Motorsport 970 injectors. Stock ITB setup.

You can see it dies out on top. So I will probably go for the 7670 T4 for 2017 season.

This is on 98 RON fuel. Measured on the hub.

[R_34]

How much boost ?

[SSM]

2 hours ago, R_34 said:

How much boost ?

Think we peaked at 1.35 bar

[Deano 1]

wheres the best place to order one of these bad boys, should i be looking in the states or australia?

 

[sneakey pete]

MTA and GCG both stock them. I think someone on the last page said MTAs prices were't too bad?

[Tom Tucker]

14 hours ago, Griffin said:

What was the bore and stroke of the 2.3? 

100mm stroker

[Rekin]

I believe the 0.80 a/r vs 0.92 a/r is a bigger argument than 7163 vs 7064 rotor pair.  It takes much more wg spring to keep the 7163 spinning up to max speed than the 7064 - due in large part to the a/r differences

Any chance it would fit under the stock heat shield & line up with standard intercooler piping?

[Full-Race Geoff]

On 11/11/2016 at 4:43 PM, discopotato03 said:

Geoff at this stage I think the 0.92 TS 7064 is the best bet for me . I also like the idea of an around 3000 rev boost threshold and the slightly larger 0.92 AR turbine housing , surely this combination has to have it all over a single scroll 0.82 AR IW GT3076R . I'm trying not to have the big or small turbo feel and top end revs and power numbers aren't so important to me . 400-450 wheel Hp is fine but a broad spread of power and good part throttle running is essential . Lastly that turbine housing coating you do , how much of a real world difference does it make keeping the radiated heat in check .

Adrian, I agree this combination could work well.  just make certain to get the IWG actuator and spring rate dialed for your needs.  This is a critical part of optimizing performance from twinscroll IWG efr turbos

40 minutes ago, Rekin said:

Any chance it would fit under the stock heat shield & line up with standard intercooler piping?

Sorry I do not know yet

4 hours ago, Deano 1 said:

wheres the best place to order one of these bad boys, should i be looking in the states or australia?

Full-Race carries almost every variation of EFR turbo in stock - and our annual black friday sale starts next week.  If youre looking to pick up a turbo, this is a good opportunity

14 hours ago, SSM said:

Here is my dynosheet with EFR 7064 T4 .92 internal wastegate. RB26 is stock, fully balanced. 6Boost manifold, 3" exhaust. Bosch Motorsport 970 injectors. Stock ITB setup.

The 7064 is too small for RB26.  I believe there is much more performance to be had once optimized.  However your dyno chart shows only 200hp by 3500rpm - so there is likely an issue with the IWG actuator being too soft and getting blown open

20 hours ago, Tom Tucker said:

In my experience, I would look no further than a 7670 1.05 T4. On my 2.3L Evo, the thing was insane. 30 psi by 3750rpm, at 4000rpm it was making 250kw and 530nm of torque. Then went on to 410kw. But on 98 on 20psi, it was also perfect. Made 285kw, and ridiculously punchy. There is no such thing as "too much turbo" with the 7670 when it is as responsive as that. I'd expect similar boost threshold on an RB25. I've sort of described it to people as GTX35 power for GTX2867 response.

7670 1.05 a/r is our #1 most popular efr turbo for a reason!

Edited November 13, 2016 by Full-Race Geoff

[Kinkstaah]

On ‎13‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 0:36 PM, Rekin said:

Any chance it would fit under the stock heat shield & line up with standard intercooler piping?

Going by the photos, it looks like it fits nicer than my GTX3582 (the borg warner is smaller, in those photos), so it can be used with engine bay piping without any major concern I'd wager, as my GTX does/did.

[Full-Race Geoff]

Kinkstah, the turbos i posted photos of are much smaller in wheel size and airflow rate than your GTX3582 (they're much earlier spooling turbos).  Keep in mind your GTX3582 has an "82mm compressor" - this is a very big singlescroll turbo considering your setup.  It is comparable to an EFR8374 with "83mm compressor".  I can assure you that if you tried to cram a large efr 8374 in this area you would quickly run out of room also!

[VFRegal]

@Full-Race Geoff Geoff, you've made a few comments about the high back pressures in the 7163 TS 0.8. Is there any future plans for a larger rear housing ? What are your thoughts on modifying the manifold to external gate and using some threaded rod to hold the IWG shut (instead of welding).

Is there much of a penalty going from the twin to single scroll ? I noticed the twin scroll not listed on the webpage anymore ?

Cheers !

 

[Full-Race Geoff]

The 7163 is an excellent turbo in twinscroll and singlescroll configuration.  I have a few rally race customers that removed their $10k TR30R and switched to 7163 vband ewg (off the shelf) and gained performance.   the 0.80 a/r twinscroll is optimal for very early spool on the 7163 but will hit an emap wall before the 0.85 singlescroll.. 

There is a possibility of larger A/R twinscroll housing in the future, but borgwarner moves slowly so this is wayy out.  Modifying the manifold to external gate offers zero benefit, backpressure is dictated by the volute not the wg config.  thanks for the heads up that our new website is missing the twinscroll 7163.  we just launched this site and finding small errors all the time