Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[burn4005]

a 3076 pushing 70+lb/min of air at that pressure ratio is going to be HOT. compressor efficiency would be down in the mid 50's and the rotating assembly not long for this world, not to mention terrible in/ex pressure ratios doing the engine no favours. the turbine expansion ratio is going to be well over 6:1.

the percieved power "advantage" of the precisions/garrets is you can run them outside their operating envelope and they'll go for a while, making right on the limit/more than their rated power. but you are going to run into issues, such as sonic blade tips/choke.

the gamma Ti on the back end of the EFRs will be destroyed in short order, which means you have to size them properly for the application. some people see that as a weakness, but it has been engineered to operate in a particular range, which is the trade off from running such an incredibly light turbine wheel.  the speed sensor bung is there for a reason.

Edited June 1, 2017 by burn4005

[discopotato03]

Yes it should be real interesting to see the results particularly for the 7064 on the standard manifold . In some ways its a pity that the inlet side isn't standard but the 7064 may make up for the G/Fredys suggested torque loss at lowish revs .

Would anyone be prepared to guess how well a 7670 T3 IW would go on the standard RB25 manifold . My guess is better than a 0.82 IW 3076R but not sure where the manifold becomes the greatest limitation . Liths 7064 T3 IW very probably could be the gun IW turbo for the standard manifold .

Looking forward to the results cheers A .

 

 

[Kinkstaah]

I wouldn't think the standard manifold is that much of a restriction, it was flowing my GTX3582 pretty damn well (over 420kw on an auto).
I changed it 'just because'/overkill.

I think if you're aiming at something sensible with a 7163 or a 7670 and don't intend to run either to within a mm of their life it will provide a pretty decent result. If someone was starting over in the skyline world I'd probably recommend a 7163 and aim at making 280kw or something like that and enjoy the thing.

Or just immediately put a LS into the car and be done with it

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

16 hours ago, discopotato03 said:

Yes it should be real interesting to see the results particularly for the 7064 on the standard manifold . In some ways its a pity that the inlet side isn't standard but the 7064 may make up for the G/Fredys suggested torque loss at lowish revs .

Would anyone be prepared to guess how well a 7670 T3 IW would go on the standard RB25 manifold . My guess is better than a 0.82 IW 3076R but not sure where the manifold becomes the greatest limitation . Liths 7064 T3 IW very probably could be the gun IW turbo for the standard manifold .

Looking forward to the results cheers A .

 

 

the T3 collector becomes a restriction...

However bleeding off exhaust gasses/pressure pre collector solves that issue - thus you see the same motor/same turbo making much more power by going IWG to EWG off the manifold NOT off the housing.

[iruvyouskyrine]

I wouldn't think the standard manifold is that much of a restriction, it was flowing my GTX3582 pretty damn well (over 420kw on an auto).
I changed it 'just because'/overkill.
I think if you're aiming at something sensible with a 7163 or a 7670 and don't intend to run either to within a mm of their life it will provide a pretty decent result. If someone was starting over in the skyline world I'd probably recommend a 7163 and aim at making 280kw or something like that and enjoy the thing.
Or just immediately put a LS into the car and be done with it [emoji14]

I really wanted to put a 7163 on my RB20 but the large exhaust mani and RB26 plenum made me go a size smaller to retain as much response as possible. A 7163 would be shitloads of fun on an RB25! Keen to see this 7670 on a 25

[Deano 1]

?

[Piggaz]

How long till its on the rollers, Deano?

[Buraz]

f**k yeah!! Keen to see results

[Deano 1]

Still waiting on the fuel system AI are prettttty dam slow. 

Everything else is basically ready to go. 

Fuel system won't take me long to install. 

 

Oh and no rollers..... Jez has a hub dyno now for the big power cars, and the old dyno for all the lil baby power cars ?

[Buraz]

I'm waiting on my 9180 too for my 2.8!! Originally I bought a 9174 but it's still on back order, it's been over a month already and I don't wanna wait anymore!!

I don't know what to expect from this one, wouldn't want it to be too laggy but we'll see I guess.

[Deano 1]

I highly doubt they will be laggy, for the power they put out. 

Remember it is a 1000hp turbo ??

[whatsisname]

There is a certainly an element of gleefully waiting for destruction and drama for that setup. He took it to the drags and broke both drive shafts and a rocker (ran 11.08 and 1.8 60ft at 136mph)

 

Did the rocker issue occur on the same pass as the 136mph trap? Must have had issues on that pass surely, as the trap speed seems a bit on the low side for a relatively light chassis, especially considering how responsive it is. Obvious spread of torque and peak torque is a major factor but with over 450kW at the wheels I would've thought it would be well into 140+ territory.

 

 

 

 

 

[Griffin]

4 hours ago, Buraz said:

I'm waiting on my 9180 too for my 2.8!! Originally I bought a 9174 but it's still on back order, it's been over a month already and I don't wanna wait anymore!!

I don't know what to expect from this one, wouldn't want it to be too laggy but we'll see I guess.

Where did you order the 9174 from and where is the 9180 coming from? What price did they end up being thanks?

I'm starting a 9174 on 2.6 shortly.

[Lithium]

Last night we went out for a bit of a drive to get a start up/safely drivable tune into the EFR7064/RB25 setup to try and find and eliminate any potential headaches for the dyno on Saturday and all went very well.   Mostly pretty soft stuff but all seems to be working pretty well, no "full pulls" or anything like that but I feel this graph gives a bit of an idea of of how easy it is to make it spool.  The top graph with the blue line is MAP, the bottom light blue one is throttle - this was just giving a solid roll on the gas and short shifting to get up to speed merging onto the motorway, at least as a passenger it felt basically naturally aspirated... the owner (who was driving) also mentioned that to me at one point during the drive.  

He is outright excited to see what it does on the dyno, but response wise he is already totally stoked - was better than he expected, I had actually talked him up in size as he was initially thinking about smaller being a bit concerned about lag for his road car.   As it turns out, the only complaint is that the antisurge housing whistles almost constantly - even cruising at 100kph on the flat, so he's going to build an airbox around the filter etc to try and quieten it up a bit lol.

All going well I'll have further info on Saturday after the dyno - but so far this is easily the most responsive RB25 I've been in which is not running a stock turbo.

[Kinkstaah]

After taking mine to the drags (I was slower than the garrett amagad) for test and tuning I found that at full noise the turbo is actually really not that loud at all - It's only loud when it's spooling up and being just under positive pressure/2-5psi.

Seems your friend has the same issue, these things whistle all the time. Mine sounds like tinnitus or an old school TV when it's running, which is an interesting problem to have in the grand scheme of things.

If I had a 25 I would aim for 300kw and a 7163 which would be fkin mint a setup to have. Enough power before everything stock starts to go kablam and the best way to make it.

[Lithium]

38 minutes ago, Kinkstaah said:

After taking mine to the drags (I was slower than the garrett amagad) for test and tuning I found that at full noise the turbo is actually really not that loud at all - It's only loud when it's spooling up and being just under positive pressure/2-5psi.

Seems your friend has the same issue, these things whistle all the time. Mine sounds like tinnitus or an old school TV when it's running, which is an interesting problem to have in the grand scheme of things.

If I had a 25 I would aim for 300kw and a 7163 which would be fkin mint a setup to have. Enough power before everything stock starts to go kablam and the best way to make it.

What power is it making on the EFR versus the Garrett?   And yeah, anti-surge whistles tend to be at their most obnoxious at moderate load at low rpm - which can be a pain if you intend on driving around a very responsive setup like a normal car in an area with lots of hills haha.

EFR7163 came up in convo for this car as well, but the larger turbine and the whole T3 internally gated housing idea won out for the stock manifold RB25 idea.  The 7064 fits much better than my old GT3076R setup did, the response seems great to the point more could be a downside and I have no reason to think that so long as everything (ie, internal gate actuator) is up to the task that the 7064 won't be capable of 300kw @ wheels - it's a mid 50lb/min turbo, afterall.

It's already at the point that the boost curve on the dyno is irrelevant, if it makes ~300kw in our money (the hub dyno I use run the way I run it) it will easily be the best street RB25 turbo setup I've experienced - especially bolting on to the stock manifold.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Lithium

[admS15]

@Lithium is a spacer required between housing and manifold for the 7064?

[Lithium]

1 minute ago, admS15 said:

@Lithium is a spacer required between housing and manifold for the 7064?

No, I'll try and get a pic on Saturday but it fits nicely.

No idea why they turned off tagging on here, was going to tag Discopotato as I suspect he may like the EFR7064 at first impression.

 

[Lithium]

This is how it looked on the engine stand.... may actually give the best impression of space

Edited June 15, 2017 by Lithium

[admS15]

^very nice fit indeed. Was the compressor cover rotated so the outlet was closer to standard? Cheers.