Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[Lithium]

2 hours ago, Kinkstaah said:

 

Still think the 7670 EWG (1.05) would be bad news on a 2.5 with that housing though. OFC if someone buys one and has wildly excellent results then I'll go hunting for fixes again

OK this all sounds a bit odd tbh.  I am pretty sure Mat's 8374 is no laggier than that on his 2.5litre, and then there is of course this result from bri73y, the red line being an EFR7670 with 1.05a/r housing on pump gas, blue is his old HTA3076.   With the EFR7064 we are seeing 1bar at around 3000rpm in 3rd on an RB25 with an open housing internal gate setup, I'd have expected a twin scroll EFR7670 to only be a few hundred rpm laggier.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Lithium

[Full-Race Geoff]

that is a lot of motor for that little turbo.  but to me this looks like a massive exhaust leak and/or boost leak.  purely guessing without the turbo speed sensor data

[Kinkstaah]

But this is on the full race website, on a 2JZ Supra running 20psi.
This is a 7670, 1.05.

It's not rolling over at the top.

I wager mine would actually be similar to this, but yes just guessing. Given when testing boost I was able to hit 32psi (oops!!) at the same RPM that the spike ordinarily would happen (i.e, comes on boost)

Closing the gate, knowing its damn closed (hence 32psi) doesn't bring it on any earlier. It's also worth knowing that after this 32psi experiement I blew off the hose that runs between the plenum and the idle control. All the others were secure, clamped, don't appear to be leaking etc.

Will obviously double check VCT and such on the dyno, but I really think it simply is working as-is.

[Mick_o]

There is something drastically wrong with your setup. Not exactly a Direct comparison but its an example of where you should be at at WORST CASE scenario.. I have the 7670 with a 1.05 rear on my stock block 2L evo 9 and im expecting around 24psi by 4000rpm. Which is what my mate sees on evos all day with this combo. 4Gs really bring snails crazy for their given capacity. But generally speaking a 4G will wake a turbo up as good as an RB25 with VCT. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Mick_o

[Timmaz300]

Does anyone have results for the 9174 .92 yet? I have one going on my stock 2.6. 

[acsplit]

But this is on the full race website, on a 2JZ Supra running 20psi.
This is a 7670, 1.05.
It's not rolling over at the top.
I wager mine would actually be similar to this, but yes just guessing. Given when testing boost I was able to hit 32psi (oops!!) at the same RPM that the spike ordinarily would happen (i.e, comes on boost)
Closing the gate, knowing its damn closed (hence 32psi) doesn't bring it on any earlier. It's also worth knowing that after this 32psi experiement I blew off the hose that runs between the plenum and the idle control. All the others were secure, clamped, don't appear to be leaking etc.
Will obviously double check VCT and such on the dyno, but I really think it simply is working as-is.

Hey Greg,

I have been reading your feedback from a distance I commend you for trying to sort out the issues with your setup. I think you might be at the point where you need to spend some dollars with your tuner to try and diagnose the issue.

Problem is this can chew up lots of hours especially if they have to pull parts off. You may not have much choice if you want the setup fixed. If they can't get anywhere with it on a fair budget that a fresh set of eyes might be of help too.

Good luck and I hope you get it sorted so you can come and enjoy the car with the rest of us.

[acsplit]

16 hours ago, acsplit said:

Hey Greg,

I have been reading your feedback from a distance I commend you for trying to sort out the issues with your setup. I think you might be at the point where you need to spend some dollars with your tuner to try and diagnose the issue.

Problem is this can chew up lots of hours especially if they have to pull parts off. You may not have much choice if you want the setup fixed. If they can't get anywhere with it on a fair budget that a fresh set of eyes might be of help too.

Good luck and I hope you get it sorted so you can come and enjoy the car with the rest of us.

Just to add to that a dyno is one of the best diagnostic tools that should be utilized for problems like this. Not just tuning

[Piggaz]

8 hours ago, Timmaz300 said:

Does anyone have results for the 9174 .92 yet? I have one going on my stock 2.6. 

How hard do you plan on pushing this? It's a bit of an odd choice IMO. Too much cold side, not enough hot side.

[Timmaz300]

Talking to the guys at Full Race, they said it wasn't a bad choice. I recall seeing a post from Geoff, mentioning swapping up to the 9174. 80-100 rpm later spool than a 8374, with a little more top end. I chose the .92 to keep things simple. I have a turbosmart dual port wastegate for it. I don't have E85 close by right now, but I will in a couple years when I move back to the states. On pump, I'm hoping near 600 awhp, and maybe 775 to 800 awhp on E85. I have ARP head studs and a Nitto headgasket. If the turbine housing ends up being a restriction, then I can get a larger one and swap to external gates. If I don't like the 9174, then I'll just swap down to the 8374. No harm in trying something different. Fuel system and ecu will be ordered soon. Just curious if anyone before me had numbers with this turbo. 

[burn4005]

just keep a 1.45 housing on your wishlist if you're looking at 775+hp.

 

they 'spensive.

[Piggaz]

3 minutes ago, burn4005 said:

just keep a 1.45 housing on your wishlist if you're looking at 775+hp.

 

they 'spensive.

The unfortunate thing is they don't bolt straight on.

[mtnickel]

I hate to be "that guy" who posts: "how much boost do i need for 400wkw", but i have a similarly annoying/unresearched question that I'm really just doing a sanity check on...

I picked up an efr6758 in North america (I'm from Canada). it's one of the Indy Car turbos people were liquidating on subaru forums. 0.64 a/r turbine. Mint condition for a price I couldn't refuse ($675cdn=675AUD roughly). 

Anyways, i'm already externally gated on stock manifold on an RB25 and looking to run this for the ultimate "response" type turbo. 

Anyone think this is a good choice for the fastest possible spooling RB25 with hopefully around 275kw with aprox 1.2Bar?

I haven't seen anyone with an efr6758 on an RB25, but I really just look at it as a good stock replacement that will make 100hp more. Will happily post dyno results when I get them next year.

Thoughts?

PS. chassis the rb25 is in is a datsun 240z. It's light and I'd really just like response to have it a little more lively in first and second. Current turbo is td05h-18g 10cm kinuagawa billet turbo. 10cm terrible choice. shouldn't go bigger than 8cm for any td05h turbine. My other option is to sell the EFR and get a kando/mamba/kinugawa gtx3071r.

[burn4005]

thats getting towards the very upper limit of power for the 67 compressor. but you'd scrape it in before overspeeding.

I'd be wanting a larger A/R hotside though on a 2.5

 

have a play in matchbot and see where your exhaust pressures end up.

[VFRegal]

34 minutes ago, burn4005 said:

thats getting towards the very upper limit of power for the 67 compressor. but you'd scrape it in before overspeeding.

I'd be wanting a larger A/R hotside though on a 2.5

 

have a play in matchbot and see where your exhaust pressures end up.

I've always wondered with Matchbot, what are acceptable levels for your exhaust pressure. And what delta's should you try to keep it within ?

 

[sneakey pete]

2 hours ago, burn4005 said:

just keep a 1.45 housing on your wishlist if you're looking at 775+hp.

 

they 'spensive.

probably American HP not Australian HP so could be possible.

Still waiting to turn mine up, between needing to fix an oil leak on the turbo oil return and WTAC and work haven't had much motivation/time to get back to it.

[Birds]

5 hours ago, mtnickel said:

I hate to be "that guy" who posts: "how much boost do i need for 400wkw", but i have a similarly annoying/unresearched question that I'm really just doing a sanity check on...

I picked up an efr6758 in North america (I'm from Canada). it's one of the Indy Car turbos people were liquidating on subaru forums. 0.64 a/r turbine. Mint condition for a price I couldn't refuse ($675cdn=675AUD roughly). 

Anyways, i'm already externally gated on stock manifold on an RB25 and looking to run this for the ultimate "response" type turbo. 

Anyone think this is a good choice for the fastest possible spooling RB25 with hopefully around 275kw with aprox 1.2Bar?

I haven't seen anyone with an efr6758 on an RB25, but I really just look at it as a good stock replacement that will make 100hp more. Will happily post dyno results when I get them next year.

Thoughts?

PS. chassis the rb25 is in is a datsun 240z. It's light and I'd really just like response to have it a little more lively in first and second. Current turbo is td05h-18g 10cm kinuagawa billet turbo. 10cm terrible choice. shouldn't go bigger than 8cm for any td05h turbine. My other option is to sell the EFR and get a kando/mamba/kinugawa gtx3071r.

If chasing response you're better to choke a small turbo up top than have one you won't use to full capacity. Not sure how big the EFR you have is, but for 275rwkw, 3071 all the way, or a medium high flow. That's plenty for a responsive and fun ~1400kg rear wheel drive on the street.

[mtnickel]

13 hours ago, burn4005 said:

thats getting towards the very upper limit of power for the 67 compressor. but you'd scrape it in before overspeeding.

I'd be wanting a larger A/R hotside though on a 2.5

 

have a play in matchbot and see where your exhaust pressures end up.

Ya. It's a stretch to make that power at the pressure level the 2.5L would like to make it at. I did plot it all up in matchbot. I'm not sure what pressure delta's are "OK". I think they were around 11-13psi up at the top end. I plotted up the same turbo with the Focus ST engine and psi's (because they are known to make 400-420whp on this turbo) and they had similar Delta's because they were pushing turbo so hard. They were running like 30psi however to get the turbo into the maximum flow up at the top of the map.

 

12 hours ago, VFRegal said:

I've always wondered with Matchbot, what are acceptable levels for your exhaust pressure. And what delta's should you try to keep it within ?

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this? The delta's certainly seem OK in the main RPM band I'll use daily (3k-5.5k).

7 hours ago, Birds said:

If chasing response you're better to choke a small turbo up top than have one you won't use to full capacity. Not sure how big the EFR you have is, but for 275rwkw, 3071 all the way, or a medium high flow. That's plenty for a responsive and fun ~1400kg rear wheel drive on the street.

You're commenting on the turbo choice in the EFR thread without even knowing the specifics of the EFR turbo I mentioned...lol.

 

Overall, I think it will work but certainly have it's tradeoffs. I know it will be way more responsive than the td05 18g I have now and it should make 75whp more as well. Time will tell, and I guess I can be the first guiney pig. The smoking deal I got on the turbo means I can't really pass it up.

Edited October 20, 2017 by mtnickel

[mtnickel]

Here's my match

RB25 - 18psi EFR6758 .60A/R

I roll down Volumetric efficiency near 7000 since the stock cams will likely make peak power at 6000rpm

http://www.turbos.borgwarner.com/go/E51DZB

 

[Birds]

3 hours ago, mtnickel said:

 

You're commenting on the turbo choice in the EFR thread without even knowing the specifics of the EFR turbo I mentioned...lol.

 

Overall, I think it will work but certainly have it's tradeoffs. I know it will be way more responsive than the td05 18g I have now and it should make 75whp more as well. Time will tell, and I guess I can be the first guiney pig. The smoking deal I got on the turbo means I can't really pass it up.

Doesn't negate the usefulness of the advice - my point was: stay small for response. People talk about small turbos choking up top but unless you're tracking the car, the trade off of some top end for significantly better respones down low is worth it. If the 6758 tops out around there, then stick with it IMO.

[mtnickel]

42 minutes ago, Birds said:

Doesn't negate the usefulness of the advice - my point was: stay small for response.

Touche! I agree. Thanks. I will be back here next year with results. Have to convert turbine inlet to T3 and get it all fitted and tuned. Plus it's my summer car here in North America and won't see driving over the snowy months.

Thanks for input.