Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[Lithium]

He was a low mount twins man before,  was a bit shocked at how much power and torque it made so effortlessly - it still is running a stock gearbox so I doubt he will be winding it up until or if that is resolved.  The car is "real world" FAST now so having headroom in the setup is no liability

Results from that round of superlap - his fastest time was the one in the video which was clearly not clean, it started raining afterwards and he called it for the weekend but then it dried out later and others kept going... he probably had more time in it.

His car is the R32 in the Pro-Street class below (Tony Satherly/Mitsi EVO in Pro Open is the 666 EVO which went sub 1:30s at WTAC 2017)

[burn4005]

Mine (8374 on rb26) just got a shiny new KV8 and an EMAP sensor so tune will be early february.

I'm pretty close to deciding to throw an E46 M3 DBW motor on it with an R35 pedal, but might do that a bit later in the year as there are some CAD shenanigans and machine work required for that to work.

I'm interested in how the PPS boost target, torque demand and actual TPS position will correlate when they can all be independently set.

[Piggaz]

Are you going pre/post throttle MAP sensors with the KV8?

[Kinkstaah]

 

Above in the orange is one of my aborted run at ~22psi on the 7670. Splitfires called it quits and the Dyno got mostly reconfigured as it was dummied up in the past as a 4.36 ratio because of the slip of the auto converter. It's now 4.1 (my rear diff is 4.083 but it's 0.5% difference).

VCT is now actually working and wired in. The car made 330kw at 12psi, and the best run before we gave up was 433kw at 5700rpm before spark breakdown (again at 23psi). (Not pictured in graph above)

No, I didn't get printouts because spent more time actually tuning the car through various boost levels between 12 and 20psi as that whole section before VCT switched off (i.e 1100 to 5500rpm) was REALLY LEAN as VCT hadn't been running..... for years... 

In any case, big turbo is big. I still maintain this thing is a lot closer to the 8374 than most realise. It was still picking up more than 10kw per PSI on my motor going from 330 @ 12 to what would have been over 433kw at 22-23psi.

[acsplit]

Does it drive better now?

[burn4005]

1 hour ago, Piggaz said:

Are you going pre/post throttle MAP sensors with the KV8?

yea the plan is to get one of those 4 bar map/IAT sensors welded into the top of the intake manifold.. I think. depends if it can be welded in-situ or not. otherwise will just run a 4 bar from one of the original boost ports near cyl 6, but would rather not due to cyl 6 not being a good representation of all the cylinders intake pressures.

will initially tune on just TPS with a Map correction table and do some logging see what will work the best. my fuel model has all the corrections enabled (charge temp, injector delta, Exhaust pressure correction, fuel density etc. have made charge temp offset table that works like the fuel cooling coefficient in Motec M1 and Link ECUs too, that blends for Ethanol. cooling offset = coefficient/lambda target.. coeff is about 14 deg for 98 and 20 deg for E85.

have spoken to Scott at emtron at length about best strategies for ITB turbo and it looks like a blend from modelled throttle mass flow to straight speed density MAP at about ~85% throttle will be a good crossover, but there will be a dead spot somewhere between the two where the throttle model isnt entirely accurate any more, and the MAP model isn't 100% either so will be tricky to get exactly right.

Edited January 18, 2018 by burn4005

[Piggaz]

2 minutes ago, burn4005 said:

yea the plan is to get one of those 4 bar map/IAT sensors welded into the top of the intake manifold.. I think. depends if it can be welded in-situ or not. otherwise will just run a 4 bar from one of the original boost ports near cyl 6, but would rather not due to cyl 6 not being a good representation of all the cylinders intake pressures.

have spoken to Scott at emtron at length about best strategies for ITB turbo and it looks like a blend from modelled throttle mass flow to straight speed density MAP at about ~85% throttle will be a good crossover, but there will be a dead spot somewhere between the two where the throttle model isnt entirely accurate any more, and the MAP model isn't 100% either so will be tricky to get exactly right.

I’m running pre/post MAP sensors and didn’t have to drill and tap anything. It can be done. 

Short little hoses to the source. 

[burn4005]

what are you using as pre-throttle map source?

[Piggaz]

1 minute ago, burn4005 said:

what are you using as pre-throttle map source?

Have to ask Scott, he overseen it all. (The car isn’t at home at the moment). His whole thing was to have the hoses as short as possible/not have a MAP sensor on the board with 2 meters of vacuum hose running inside the cabin.

[burn4005]

interesting. I've got a long Map hose to dampen the post ITB signal down.. i guess he'd rather use the digital filtering instead.

my other idea in progress is a pressure sensor on the clutch line, which will correlate pretty closely to clamp force.

should be able to get launches and flat shifting dialed in (ITB will allow auto throttle blipping too for downshifts)

Edited January 18, 2018 by burn4005

[acsplit]

Come on mate, it's not that hard to heel toe!

[burn4005]

Blip will be for an Air shifted sequential around Xmas if 2018 goes to plan.

[burn4005]

its impossible to manually blip for downshifts on a paddle shift when you have gear stacking.

[acsplit]

3 minutes ago, burn4005 said:

its impossible to manually blip for downshifts on a paddle shift when you have gear stacking.

My bad, I didn't realize you were going full time attack spec with paddle shift etc

[sneakey pete]

I just used one of the nipples of the under plenum box and ran a short cable to the map sensor i've mounted to the old fuel line mounts under the plenum, does the trick and is tidy and short. Not sure that the quality of the signal has been any issue either, plus i'd imagine its pretty even as its coming from the balance tube via two points.

[Piggaz]

How does VCT not running “for years” NOT get noticed? How does a car get let out the door “for years” with VCT not working? Who tunes this thing? They should be sacked! That’s so far BELOW apart! What else is wrong with the setup?

The 7670 is not this “big Monster” snail and CANNOT be compared to a 8374. It’s 64 lb/min vs 79 lb/ min. 

The Evo 9 guys go from a stock snail, whack a 7670/1.05 on and they say it drives like the factory turbo. 

My 2.8 Static cam/8374/1.05 is “all in” at 3500 RPM in second. Your 2.8/VCT/7670 should be WELL earlier than that! Something is wrong!

[Mick_o]

So much that! ^^^ 

My mate has a stock block Evo 9 with a 7670 1.05 rear and his car behaves like a 54lb bolt on Evo turbo. 

I cant possibly see how a 64lb snail behaves like a 79lb turbo? 

They arent even in the same realm! 

Id also like to know if you have been in a 8374 powered car to make this comparison?

[34GeeTeeTee]

56 minutes ago, Piggaz said:

 

My 2.8 Static cam/8374/1.05 is “all in” at 3500 RPM in second. 

Sounds like a party 

[sneakey pete]

Not sure why mines 700rpm later with the same cams 

Guess more tuning will help a little.

[Piggaz]

28 minutes ago, sneakey pete said:

Not sure why mines 700rpm later with the same cams 

Guess more tuning will help a little.

How modified is your head?

How big is your exhaust? 

Where are the cams set? (Mine are 0/0) 

Finalise the tune and see what happens.

Whats holding the final tune up? It’s been ages!