Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[Piggaz]

18 minutes ago, fatz said:

I only bought one cause Pissbin went from -5 to 8374 and said it was epic, and that is as a internal gate so let’s face it=shit

he probably would have said the same if he dumped a 6262 on as well

Yup. Lol.

[SimonR32]

On 9/14/2018 at 7:32 PM, acsplit said:

Precision turbos are basically for knuckle draggers who only want to go in a straight line and brag about numbers.

For intelligent people who want a quick street car, tarmac rally or circuit car EFR is the right choice

Alternatively you could buy a reasonable sized Precision and have it all...

Maybe I'm still waiting for my intelligence to kick in ?

[acsplit]

You need a pro mod 88 on your car, then we can take you seriously.

Alternatively you could buy a reasonable sized Precision and have it all...
Maybe I'm still waiting for my intelligence to kick in [emoji1787]

[burn4005]

As much as precision not having compessor maps available pisses me off, the proof is in the pudding and Simon your setup is remarkable.

[fatz]

My engine valve floats at 400kw so no need to go full nuckle dragger for more

 

 

[VFRegal]

One of the guys in Street Cars Class in WA.

7670, not nice !

 

[Lithium]

On 9/14/2018 at 11:38 PM, fatz said:

Lol will report back once 8374 is on seeing as the engine had a 6262 on it which was pretty epic before

 

unlike you kunce I ain’t bias to either will report back which is better after I hit all the same tracks

 

GTFO with your bias calls, I've been given shit from every direction because of my inclination to stay neutral  Apparently as soon as I talk positively about one brand I am a fanboi for it, even if I could have just finished recommending another option over it 5 minutes earlier somewhere else.  If you're talking about the excessive discussion about Borgs in this thread, check the title - of course you're going to get some stick for bringing Precisions up in here haha.

Would be very very interested to see how the 8374 comes across after being used to a 6262, it's not a change I'd necessarily do given they're all going to be so similar - but if the change is going to happen I'm very interested to see how it comes out.  The 8374 is (in theory) a step up in hot side flow, so depending on the housing chosen and how good the head is I wouldn't be too surprised if there is some loss in down low spin (purely gas energy versus the size of the turbine being spun), a bit more power per psi and no loss... if not an improvement in transient response once up on boil.

People both for and against the EFRs versus other turbos seem to selectively suggest there is magic involved.  There isn't, as with any turbo or really any product.  A huge amount of getting the best performance is picking the right unit for your job - the last 5% of improvement getting the "best possible result" is often the hardest work and biggest expense. 

There always seems to be that someone at a track meet smashing guys the big dollar guys using the cheapest parts they can get which won't fall apart with what they're using it for.  Doesn't mean that they wouldn't be happier or possibly doing better if they had the better bits on it - and sometimes the "most desirable parts" just won't suit a set up as well as something else, so the result will actually be better.  We're lucky to be spoilt for choice

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Lithium

[reaper]

Response is boring

[Lithium]

Seems almost relevant

Edited September 17, 2018 by Lithium

[Dale FZ1]

8 hours ago, Lithium said:

 

People both for and against the EFRs versus other turbos seem to selectively suggest there is magic involved.  There isn't, as with any turbo or really any product.  A huge amount of getting the best performance is picking the right unit for your job - the last 5% of improvement getting the "best possible result" is often the hardest work and biggest expense. 

There always seems to be that someone at a track meet smashing guys the big dollar guys using the cheapest parts they can get which won't fall apart with what they're using it for.  Doesn't mean that they wouldn't be happier or possibly doing better if they had the better bits on it - and sometimes the "most desirable parts" just won't suit a set up as well as something else, so the result will actually be better.  We're lucky to be spoilt for choice 

 

 

This is the good oil Dan.  I hope people take the time to think this through.

Many people get wound up about the detail and fail to comprehend "what went wrong".  Often it's overlooking the detail, and how things work together.

Either that, or the driving talent is under-developed :)

[fatz]

Lol fanboys

im only a fan of smashing laps ( slow ones at that)

 

[Dale FZ1]

No fanboy.  I'm running 6266.  Slowly too.

[RICE RACING]

Just wanted to say personally I think these turbo's are  bit 'homo' in regards to the specific power they put out, just my experience v's the many others I have used.

 

IE: get brand Lez Beane V's EFR on same boost and they will make considerably less power, and also the rpm (engine) is less too. Nothing scientific to add here its just what I have seen first hand.

[Lithium]

3 hours ago, RICE RACING said:

Just wanted to say personally I think these turbo's are  bit 'homo' in regards to the specific power they put out, just my experience v's the many others I have used.

 

IE: get brand Lez Beane V's EFR on same boost and they will make considerably less power, and also the rpm (engine) is less too. Nothing scientific to add here its just what I have seen first hand.

These turbos are designed focussing on response for a power level, not max power level for a wheel size.... all the information is there to determine whether the flow will suit what you're trying to achieve, to make sure you are able to choose appropriately from that.   There are plenty of cases where you can go up a size in EFR versus a competitor and still end up with better transient response and make up for, if not more than make up for the flow difference penalty you may have had using a size down.

[RICE RACING]

Problem is they don't make a larger one (9180)

and the twins is 'aids' spec, so you ironically are better off with other brands at high power and especially if you want to use full rpm of your engine.

The EFR's are really weird that way irrespective of what the charts say, they choke engines, seen it on all types too.

Edited September 18, 2018 by RICE RACING

[Lithium]

54 minutes ago, RICE RACING said:

Problem is they don't make a larger one (9180)

and the twins is 'aids' spec, so you ironically are better off with other brands at high power and especially if you want to use full rpm of your engine.

The EFR's are really weird that way irrespective of what the charts say, they choke engines, seen it on all types too.

Yeah, hard to disagree with most of this.

The last bit... I still need more data, and while I agree re: the choking engines - it seems quite a bit like the data is there, but Borg Warner have presented it in a way to make it seem "better than it is"  They have mapped lines way past where compressor efficiency would be falling over, the "95lb/min" line which they so clearly mark for the EFR9180 is VERY misleading imho.   You have to pay attention to the numbers, not just treat the right most lines as the target.

I think there is a very real chance that the bigger G-series turbos coming out from Garrett could give Borg Warner a kick in the pants.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Lithium

[burn4005]

agreed, what garret have managed to get out of a 49mm turbine exducer (21% less cross sectional area than a GTX3076) is remarkable. although their compressors are very impressive as well

am looking forward to seeing what they can manage with something >70mm.

Edited September 18, 2018 by burn4005

[sneakey pete]

Welp....

 

f**k.

 

 

 

Seems like the gasket has gone through or at least into the inlet to the turbine. Not yet removed manifold but i'm expecting to find chunks of gasket sitting in it.

What are my options now?

 

[Missileman]

that blows man, how the fark does that even happen?

[RICE RACING]

Happens on rotaries allot, typically it flows like this.

Over time, even on metal gasket the 'pre load' drops with many thermal cycles distorting the flanges/gaskets, then as a result there is hot gasses leaking, which in turn then break down the barriers that isolate the heat away from even a high rate stainless or Inconel gasket what then ensues is 'torching' of the said gasket and it falls into the turbo. Starts mostly at the center divider as this part takes much more of the heat stress as its got a far longer path to reject the said heat to the outer walls of the mainfold............. anyway end result is a total cluster f**k as above.

This is why I dont use any gaskets personally and only smear on a thin layer of a special product I get in for others used in aviation.

Fuchs 762