Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[Lithium]

Agreed, though people building their cars often don't do that much research - and the tuner/engine builder/whoever are often stuck with having to work with decisions that someone have already made.... not many tuners will turn someone away unless they've made a truly awful decision with the parts they've bought or how they've installed them (if they have at this point).

I don't tune professionally because dealing with this kind of thing daily would do my head in.

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Lithium

[s14 rb25det]

the turbo is a efr7670? the engine is a rb25det neo with new bearings,gaskets,arp headstuds,new water /oilpump ,head drain,crank collar and bigger sump to be more reliable. exhaust manifold is a old hks twinscroll i think and hks wastegate, it also have a emu ecu with flexfuel sensor and 1200cc sidefeed injectors

[s14 rb25det]

also i forgot to mention,the engine is stock bottom end?

[GTSBoy]

1 hour ago, s14 rb25det said:

lexfuel sensor and 1200cc sidefeed injectors

How the hell, and why, did you end up with sidefeeds on a Neo?

[HarrisRacing]

Alright fellas i'm back...

 

Pulled the drivetrain from the wrecked GTR...in the midst of being injured and bummed sold the 8374 .92 EFR and 6 boost manifold off of it.

 

Found another R32 GTR roller that i'm picking up this coming Sunday (yes exactly 1 year ago to the day of me totalling my car by setting the GTR jump distance record).

 

Anyway...what's changed? I'm going all out this time. Bigger cams (was on tomei poncam A) and lighter weight (gutted, caged) car this time. Motor is still BC stroker N1 block stock bores. 2.75 L...everything ther to rev 8,400...everything there to rev to 9k if I dry sump it this time. Last time I maxxed the ID 1350X injectors doing 740 whp on E85...what will the 9180 get me?

 

What turbo setup would you pick and why?

 

Patrick

 

 

[s14 rb25det]

9 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

How the hell, and why, did you end up with sidefeeds on a Neo?

the intake manifold is greddy!and the fuelrail is from a rb25det s1 that was in the car before. so i did move that over on the neo engine and put on bigger injectors from 740cc to the new 1200cc ,going to run e85 on this

[Full-Race Geoff]

On 12/12/2018 at 10:43 PM, HarrisRacing said:

Last time I maxxed the ID 1350X injectors doing 740 whp on E85...what will the 9180 get me?

What turbo setup would you pick and why?

twin efr6258 would still be my favorite turbo setup.  if it had to be single turbo then thats a different conversation, but 2 good twins work and can be magic on these engines

Edited December 14, 2018 by Full-Race Geoff

[HarrisRacing]

twin efr6258 would still be my favorite turbo setup.  if it had to be single turbo then thats a different conversation, but 2 good twins work and can be magic on these engines

Attached.

[s14 rb25det]

Hi? someone know around what rmp i gonna see full boost on my rb25det neo with the bw efr7670 1.05ar ? i have seen some results from the rb26dett engines.. but they do not have vct like the neo and i also have adjustable camgear on exhaust cam i can advance! will boost around 25-27 psi on max..

[RICE RACING]

Here are some interesting real world tests (sorry its a 13B rotary Mazda) but still worth looking at.

100kph to 150kph in 2 seconds and 73 meters, makes 30 psi boost in 3rd gear at ~4800rpm and will hold power to 9300rpm it has a usable power band (235rwkw) from that rpm too, it really goes better than the peak power would suggest, fast on the road, too fast as it requires traction control most times.

Hope to get to try one (EFR) for myself :)

 

[s14 rb25det]

5 hours ago, RICE RACING said:

Here are some interesting real world tests (sorry its a 13B rotary Mazda) but still worth looking at.

100kph to 150kph in 2 seconds and 73 meters, makes 30 psi boost in 3rd gear at ~4800rpm and will hold power to 9300rpm it has a usable power band (235rwkw) from that rpm too, it really goes better than the peak power would suggest, fast on the road, too fast as it requires traction control most times.

Hope to get to try one (EFR) for myself

 

ok nice! what efr is that?

[s14 rb25det]

ok!here is a result from a efr7670 0.92ar on a stock rb26dett with 6boost manifold! i dont know how much boost...

[RICE RACING]

41 minutes ago, s14 rb25det said:

ok nice! what efr is that?

EFR 9180 IWG version, running around 118,000rpm at peak engine rpm

This is it running at a bit lower power setting

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by RICE RACING
vid attached

[Nismo 3.2ish]

It really gets going ,?  13B is such a small motor and it weighs less than half of the  RB26 motor

9180 on that,  MAD , how do they stand up to high revs under  that power?

[RICE RACING]

9 minutes ago, Nismo 3.2ish said:

It really gets going ,?  13B is such a small motor and it weighs less than half of the  RB26 motor

9180 on that,  MAD , how do they stand up to high revs under  that power?

In two output shaft revolutions on a 13B it fires 4 times so its still displaces 2.616lt effectively. They are a small physical engine that is for sure, and have some great merits in relation to power density, The biggest drawbacks are if you have to compete in specific fuel consumption basis or specific power, they are about 20 to 30% less efficient when talking equivalent engine specifications.

Since the inception (1960's)  prone to sealing problems mostly cause of using a single linear beam to span 80mm distance (13B case) and keeping it in tolerance (flat, round tip on housing surface) is for all intensive purposes impossible. Then consider it has shared chambers and you can effectively take out up to half of the engine. It involves very specific calibration requirements to keep them alive (much harder than any piston engines typically).

In short to answer your question directly though.

This motor v's a RB with same turbo, I have running at same specific power (give or take) bhp/lt/bar and currently have them both at around 1 hour on full load, the Mazda still has compression LOL. Its something no one can really do this is why you don't see any on the road as real road cars, of if they do they have a motor every month put into them with no data to back up the claims of 'durability' we have been proving this car for over 2 years consistently. I will say one thing, without a Life Racing ECU and water injection system none of it would be remotely possible at all. Sure you can have a one hit wonder BS dyno claim or a few 'drag passes' and corresponding arsefacebook posts of world domination, but none of those cars EVER have any road proof of them working or if they try they detonate crack the block throw oil on the tires and spear off into the bushes killing the driver LOL.

[KiwiRS4T]

We have drift cars in NZ with three or four rotor engines making huge power with a good degree of reliability. It can be done.

 

https://www.worldtimeattack.com/index.php/mad-mike-returns-in-the-quad-rotor-madbul-rx7/

[Nismo 3.2ish]

8 hours ago, RICE RACING said:

In short to answer your question directly though.

This motor v's a RB with same turbo, I have running at same specific power (give or take) bhp/lt/bar and currently have them both at around 1 hour on full load, the Mazda still has compression LOL. Its something no one can really do this is why you don't see any on the road as real road cars, of if they do they have a motor every month put into them with no data to back up the claims of 'durability' we have been proving this car for over 2 years consistently. I will say one thing, without a Life Racing ECU and water injection system none of it would be remotely possible at all. Sure you can have a one hit wonder BS dyno claim or a few 'drag passes' and corresponding arsefacebook posts of world domination, but none of those cars EVER have any road proof of them working or if they try they detonate crack the block throw oil on the tires and spear off into the bushes killing the driver LOL.

Had a test run in the RX8 , thought they had a hive of bees under the hood

Did you have to do to the motor and what supporting mods to get this result ?

 I would imagine you blew a few donks trying to get it right and I bet it cost a bit on R&D to get the motor to perform for 2 years without going POP!

Hope you didn't kill too many drivers to get the end result LOL

[RICE RACING]

2 hours ago, Nismo 3.2ish said:

Had a test run in the RX8 , thought they had a hive of bees under the hood

Did you have to do to the motor and what supporting mods to get this result ?

 I would imagine you blew a few donks trying to get it right and I bet it cost a bit on R&D to get the motor to perform for 2 years without going POP!

Hope you didn't kill too many drivers to get the end result LOL

The motor in that car is a real nugget actually, built in NZ (it's in the title) but the porting is shit, rotors are the wrong CR, but it has a center bearing main shaft, while not necessary at all it is in there, these nugget engines are very prone to oil blockage and need attention to the breather system to make them work (again shit design) but it lives.

As said the porting is rubbish in the the extreme just goes to show you a rotary can make power with rubbish workmanship LOL...

Some pics below v's a proper port job.

In regards to getting it to live, I've been doing this since 1995 or so (my first turbo rotary) but what I did not have access too since only last 7 or so years is actual hi end race electronics that are exactly what is used in the best forced induction endurance race series around the world, this is what 'honestly' transformed a novel/different idea into some thing that works in all conditions and any eventualities we threw at it (and continue to put it through). We are the only people who run knock limited turbocharged rotaries (to my knowledge)... engines are fully controlled in knock to pre ignition stages, and believe it or not have never yet lost an engine since running the Life Racing F88 ECU. It has taken well over 300 iterations of calibration revisions (yes 300!) some may find that hard to believe but its allot of hours of development and nothing more than that, hardware wise bugger all has changed, some development of water injection specifications and proper integration into the ECU.

Don't get me wrong lots of people (not just me) I am sure have the formula to make these kunt boxes actually work but its the implementation and making it a reality that is the hard bit we have all struggled with !

 

[RICE RACING]

This is what is crucial in these engines and why I rave on about Life Racing who are the undisputed masters of knock control engines honestly.

You can quickly and randomly at times go from minor knock to pre igntion in one engine cycle! and good luck if your ECU of choice and calibrator have no real experience in running to this limit :)

[RICE RACING]

On 12/16/2018 at 8:23 AM, KiwiRS4T said:

We have drift cars in NZ with three or four rotor engines making huge power with a good degree of reliability. It can be done.

 

 

^ and some of those examples you quote as 'reliable' famously detonated at WTAC and spewed out oil (though no one was killed LOL). Also spinning wheels for a few seconds is not comparable to loading up an engine at 200+kph consistently and repeatedly.

I stand by my original comments, mechanical engineering is the ultimate distiller of bullshit, therefore you only see things in the world that work, this is why you don't see rotaries be they turbo or otherwise in anything meaningful at the top, be that circuit racing, drag racing, top speed events, or out on the streets.

Compare them on an equivalence basis and they are nowhere, still a novel engine though for kunts who like to be different