Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[RICE RACING]

Back to Datsun content, got proof of durability mother luvers??? 

Time on Load, bloke who drives it is a maniac, rapes car each time its turned driven.

300+ 9 second passes? who knows who cares, as I measure durability in hours, its got 19 hours to go before engine will be inspected (we hope, but that is the aim), see how long the shitbox lasts at all a 9180 can deliver.

 

[RICE RACING]

Some here may find this of interest.

I decided to share this since lots of "internet engineers" these days are comparing all kinds of turbos and theorizing about what will fit what best and how it will work, with ironically none of them ever testing properly the set ups they are recommending to the 'community' they claim to be doing a service too.

Anyway.

Below is an over lay of exactly the same engine type (13B-REW) stock standard.

EFR9180 IWG 0.92AR (green) v EFR7670 EWG 1.05AR (red), same target boost, same rpm acceleration rate. One on dyno done in 4th gear and other on road in 3rd gear, different gearing ratio's but importantly the accel rate is equal thus turbocharger is loaded the same way to make a valid comparison.

While I wont put up everything (only enough to put certain people in their place lol) the cars run same EGT, same lambda, same timing, all fundamentals are otherwise equal to give a fair comparison. Moral, don't believe anyone be they a vendor/supplier or internet engineer unless they can show you overlays of professional data analysis of exact comparisons to back up their claims of what will work on your engine type! comparing a motor that is not the same is just plain stupid and misleading.

So my parting message to the many stalkers who follow the thread around the world, why recommend something when you don't know what you are talking about or how to properly test it, let alone prove it?

 

:)

 

[RICE RACING]

 

Too much power with WM50, means you need the best electronic control and calibration to match

Edited December 31, 2018 by RICE RACING

[RB335]

Hi Guys.

My engine is finished and awaiting to be tuned.  The idea is building a responsive car with a smooth idle and street manners.  I have gone an EFR9180 1.05,   I like the idea of the new 9280 but for 100hp more it doesn't seem like a big step up unless it has some hidden merits that I don't know of.

Seeing factory cammed cars have made good power on single turbos,  I wasn't looking to go too big with cams, so I settled on something that will still let the car idle nice.

Some basic info on the power making stuff :

Nitto 2.8, custom spec pistons for 9.6:1 C:R Ratio
HKS Vcam Step 2 - 264 inlet 9mm lift.   Tomei 260 9mm lift Exhaust
1mm Oversize valves, ported head and worked chambers
Hypertune ITB inlet manifold
6boost Twin Scroll manifold.  Twin TIAL MV-S Gates.
EFR9180 1.05 
Haltech Elite 2500
 

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by RB335

[Nismo 3.2ish]

29 minutes ago, RB335 said:

Hi Guys.

My engine is finished and awaiting to be tuned.  The idea is building a responsive car with a smooth idle and street manners.  I have gone an EFR9180 1.05,   I like the idea of the new 9280 but for 100hp more it doesn't seem like a big step up unless it has some hidden merits that I don't know of.

Seeing factory cammed cars have made good power on single turbos,  I wasn't looking to go too big with cams, so I settled on something that will still let the car idle nice.

Some basic info on the power making stuff :

Nitto 2.8, custom spec pistons for 9.6:1 C:R Ratio
HKS Vcam Step 2 - 264 inlet 9mm lift.   Tomei 260 9mm lift Exhaust
1mm Oversize valves, ported head and worked chambers
Hypertune ITB inlet manifold
6boost Twin Scroll manifold.  Twin TIAL MV-S Gates.
EFR9180 1.05 
Haltech Elite 2500
 

 

Looking forward to see how the 9180 1.05 runs on the 2.8 Lt with the Vcam 

Has the Vcam step 2 gone from 8.7 mm to a 9mm lift or did you mod it? 

They are taking mine to 272 both sides ,  should be interesting to see how smooth they run with the  Vcam and the smaller 8374 / 1.05 and if it runs out of puff earlier 

[RICE RACING]

?On the 2.8lt I will be interested to see what the boost is like on gears 1-4 on re application of the throttle.

[RICE RACING]

On 12/16/2018 at 4:08 PM, Nismo 3.2ish said:

Had a test run in the RX8 , thought they had a hive of bees under the hood

Did you have to do to the motor and what supporting mods to get this result ?

 I would imagine you blew a few donks trying to get it right and I bet it cost a bit on R&D to get the motor to perform for 2 years without going POP!

Hope you didn't kill too many drivers to get the end result LOL

Though I would put together a little bit of real knowledge gained over the years, this is but a small sample I have (know a bit about rotaries lol).... lots of it is pertinent to any engine really though, specially those piston engine types who try to imitate rotary idle characteristics with big cams :)

Some of it is of relevance in that you can go 'too big' and end up with an engine that is overly sensitive to map/tip ratio, also one that is peaky and generally a shitbox overall in every category, narrow power band, excessive fuel use, not as drivable etc.

 

 

[s14 rb25det]

hi! did some tuning on the nissan last weekend,we had big problem with traction on the rollers,but managed a ok pull with much snowgrip on the tyres and 2 big guys in the trunk! this pull is with the efr7670 1.05 on 98 petrol with 22psi boost falling to 20 psi at top!

Fredrik_Bensin98_final (1).pdf

[s14 rb25det]

717528338_Fredrik_Bensin98_final(1) (1).pdf

[s13vert]

Hi, just wondering if anyone knows how much power roughly the new 8474 and the 9280 will make? Thanks

[MaximuSmurf]

Finally got a few fixes put in place, had to do a little extra work the last few months as the poor little SR20 kept snapping rockers. For now she's on 336rwkw and 615nm Torque, turbo is sitting on about 138,000rpm at it's peak. All holding up well at the moment.Since the last boost holding issues I've changed the following;
 - Added Link NS15+ ECU (MAP sensor now)
 - Turbosmart BOV (recirc)
 - Tomei USA new 258 cams
 - Brand new VCT (old one was rattling)

This is EFR7163 T4 0.80 rear and is still internal gate (with a Turbosmart Dual Port 24psi actuator). T4 TS high mount on a Full-race manifold.

Picked up a little more through the mid of late, nice torque figures. It's a little bit of a handful to drive as it comes on so viciously but I'm slowly getting used to feathering throttle on a bit more and have some more rear bush and suspension work to do which will hopefully give some more read end grip.
 
Still running the stock S15 throttle body, which may be restricting some flow up top, might try the slightly larger SR20 NA throttle body (or S14 one) down the track.

[VFRegal]

@MaximuSmurf

Congrats!!, a mate just sent me the facebook link.

Have you go the boost controlled by the Link ? Did you need many turns of preload ? Did you end up running it with the 4 port or 3 port mac valve setup with the dual port.

Cheers,

[MaximuSmurf]

19 minutes ago, VFRegal said:

@MaximuSmurf

Congrats!!, a mate just sent me the facebook link.

Have you go the boost controlled by the Link ? Did you need many turns of preload ? Did you end up running it with the 4 port or 3 port mac valve setup with the dual port.

Cheers,

It's still using a 3 port solenoid (link one). Preload is about 10mm (didn't count turns). Not even running the dueal port WG as a dual port setup at the moment. Single was working fine. Once the link was controlling boost, converted to MAP, changed cams to new 258's (don't think cams helped anything), and upgraded to the Turbosmart BOV it seemed to hold boost alot better.

[GTSBoy]

6 hours ago, MaximuSmurf said:

Finally got a few fixes put in place, had to do a little extra work the last few months as the poor little SR20 kept snapping rockers. For now she's on 336rwkw and 615nm Torque, turbo is sitting on about 138,000rpm at it's peak. All holding up well at the moment.Since the last boost holding issues I've changed the following;
 - Added Link NS15+ ECU (MAP sensor now)
 - Turbosmart BOV (recirc)
 - Tomei USA new 258 cams
 - Brand new VCT (old one was rattling)

This is EFR7163 T4 0.80 rear and is still internal gate (with a Turbosmart Dual Port 24psi actuator). T4 TS high mount on a Full-race manifold.

Picked up a little more through the mid of late, nice torque figures. It's a little bit of a handful to drive as it comes on so viciously but I'm slowly getting used to feathering throttle on a bit more and have some more rear bush and suspension work to do which will hopefully give some more read end grip.
 

 

 

That is f**king smashing!  That has to be the street turbo of choice.

[MaximuSmurf]

12 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

 

That is f**king smashing!  That has to be the street turbo of choice.

Yeah pretty stoked with the result. 260rwkw at 4000rpm with EFR transient is a freaking hoot to drive. It's my daily, so nice around town and through traffic etc.


Turbo RPM implies there's a little more on the table up to, I'm thinking larger Throttle Body, but it's a bit of a handful already so I'll be prioritising some upgrades for more stable rear end grip first.

[iruvyouskyrine]

If i was you i would go to a DBW throttle now you have a good ECU running the show. How are you interfacing turbo RPM into the link? I though plug ins had a 500hz input limit

[MaximuSmurf]

2 minutes ago, iruvyouskyrine said:

If i was you i would go to a DBW throttle now you have a good ECU running the show. How are you interfacing turbo RPM into the link? I though plug ins had a 500hz input limit

Yeah, I'm thinking that. EFI Solutions has a 68mm Bosch Electronic Throttle body I'm looking at. Link has an e-throttle module too so SEEEEEMS pretty straight forward. But it's been a fairly rough 18 months for the old S15, lots of issues and breakage, MORE than enough power for now so that's super low on the priority's.

You are corrected. Mate made a little Arduino board to convert the signal down to a usable hz rating.
0 - 100hz = 0rpm
100 - 500hz = 200,000rpm (50,000rpm every 100hz)
And I've got that hz number logged in the Link ECU logging history now so can see it over time / rpm / etc. Bit of mucking around (mostly from my mate, Thanks Matt ) but certainly nicer than the ~$300+ converters and gauges. This way the Link reads it so I can also do things like safety cut or alerts against the values ie >400hz = a bad time

[sneakey pete]

For those with no soldering iron experience this should do the trick

https://gcg.com.au/petrol-performance/performance-1/gauges-accessories/turbo-speed-scaler-borg-warner-efr-detail

Though its an analogue input not a digital one so plan accordingly

[MaximuSmurf]

1 minute ago, sneakey pete said:

For those with no soldering iron experience this should do the trick

https://gcg.com.au/petrol-performance/performance-1/gauges-accessories/turbo-speed-scaler-borg-warner-efr-detail

Though its an analogue input not a digital one so plan accordingly

Yeah did see and look into those, wasn't 100% of connections etc, plus mate had a spare Arduino board so was 'easier'.

[Humptee-Dumptee]

efr8374 1.05 on 6boost twin scroll single divided gate... 282 cams... ron97 pump gas...

almost 90% torque from 4k - 8k rpm... wheeeee