Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[acsplit]

well if you were in Sydney you need to run 35+ psi..

[burn4005]

I have a 5psi spring in a 50mm Progate and a 12watt 4 port solenoid (much lower dead times giving a better control range)

controls 28psi fine and holds it all the way to redline (43%-55% ramp for 28psi flat boost curve)

the secret to using light springs is the diaphragm to valve area ratio needs to be high for stable control. the 50mm gate I'm using would be in the vicinity of 2:1 but other gates around looks to be more like 1.3:1 eyeballing them, they'll be faster but not as stable (higher output gain, that falls away as exhaust pressure rises, requiring a firmer spring. once I add exhaust pressure compensation the duty should stay flat.

Edited April 29, 2019 by burn4005

[Full-Race Geoff]

I typically would prefer to use the stiffest spring possible, to acheive your minimum boost level at 0% wgdc.

[sneakey pete]

Keep in mind i'm talking 8374 IWG .92. 

Would say the diaphragm/gate size with the IWG would be around the 1.3ish ratio mark. The actuator seems slightly larger with the turbosmart iwg75 than the standard BW item.

I guess i could go the other way and stick with the 3 port and put 25-28psi of springs in it?
I noticed it going from the 7 to 14psi of springs (with no boost control) back when the car was getting set up, and i noticed going from the 4 port back to the 3 port to control it after the issues with the 4 port.

I suppose the difference between 28 psi of springs and 28psi of 4 port wouldnt be much difference, and either would be better than making 28psi with 14 psi of springs using a 3 port?

 

[welshy_32ZILA]

14 minutes ago, sneakey pete said:

Keep in mind i'm talking 8374 IWG .92. 

Would say the diaphragm/gate size with the IWG would be around the 1.3ish ratio mark. The actuator seems slightly larger with the turbosmart iwg75 than the standard BW item.

I guess i could go the other way and stick with the 3 port and put 25-28psi of springs in it?
I noticed it going from the 7 to 14psi of springs (with no boost control) back when the car was getting set up, and i noticed going from the 4 port back to the 3 port to control it after the issues with the 4 port.

I suppose the difference between 28 psi of springs and 28psi of 4 port would be much difference, and either would be better than making 28psi with 14 psi of springs using a 3 port?

 

28psi of spring is a bad idea. 

I'm not sure what issues u had previous but if it were me I'd be running a 4port solenoid and 7psi spring in the iwg as long as u have a decent ECU to control it you should be fine.

Only issue you may find is if your not monitoring egts and emap it may mask the turbo being out of efficiency  and you'll be able to continue to add boost to a certain degree. Should be able to tell via boost vs hp gain though.

[RICE RACING]

Beware the IWG's from turbostupid are a fair nugget.

They piss out air cause with proper phase anti phase control with one chamber fully shut and the other fully open even on a 1 bar spring you cant run much more than 3600mB ~38psi (gauge pressure at sea level) with a high TIP values (EFR9174 0.92A/R IWG).

Then again not sure if you soft cocks :) run real boost like we can with water injection :P 

FWIW, I have run the limits of those specific IWG branded items (various applications) and no way in hell they can run serious boost pressures on very low 0.5bar wg springs.

[RICE RACING]

I guess ~40psi boost is enough for most though

[winc]

Are there any noticable gains to buy the  Compressor Cover SX-E Style for 8374 i have a hard time finding anything on google. I mean i could just buy the normal one and then add the block plate for the IWG.

[burn4005]

No gains or losses, just doesn't have the bov or flange for solenoid.

I would have though the sxe cover would be significantly cheaper due to a simpler casting and post-cast machining process required.

[Full-Race Geoff]

On 5/4/2019 at 11:57 AM, winc said:

Are there any noticable gains to buy the  Compressor Cover SX-E Style for 8374 i have a hard time finding anything on google. I mean i could just buy the normal one and then add the block plate for the IWG.

correct - as long as you mean block plate for the Bypass Valve. 

On 5/4/2019 at 5:19 PM, burn4005 said:

No gains or losses, just doesn't have the bov or flange for solenoid.  I would have though the sxe cover would be significantly cheaper due to a simpler casting and post-cast machining process required.

+1.  some applications can benefit from the SXE housing in different ways.  2 examples:

-The B1 frame 7163 can use the s200 sxe ported shroud compressor housing to prevent surge. 
-the B2 frame 7670/8374/9180 can fit an evo8/9 with AC better if the sxe compressor housing is used

peak power is unchanged, these are all the same A/R size

On 4/30/2019 at 3:43 AM, RICE RACING said:

I guess ~40psi boost is enough for most though

wow, this evo is nuts.  I was talking to an evoX 8474 customer here in the USA about this setup.  he is close to buying motec, but I recommended he speak with you re syvecs.

[Lithium]

8 hours ago, Full-Race Geoff said:

he is close to buying motec, but I recommended he speak with you re syvecs.

[Jds14]

Hey guys. Anyone have an opinion on an efr 9280 on a 3.2l. I currently have a 9180 with 1.05 rear housing but it falls over after about 5k rpm as the turbo is out of puff. Was consideribg putting 1.45 rear. 

[RICE RACING]

14 hours ago, Full-Race Geoff said:

wow, this evo is nuts.  I was talking to an evoX 8474 customer here in the USA about this setup.  he is close to buying motec, but I recommended he speak with you re syvecs.

Thanks mate, yep its the best by a looooooong way !

[RICE RACING]

7 hours ago, Jds14 said:

Hey guys. Anyone have an opinion on an efr 9280 on a 3.2l. I currently have a 9180 with 1.05 rear housing but it falls over after about 5k rpm as the turbo is out of puff. Was consideribg putting 1.45 rear. 

That is weird.

I posted up stacks of info (only one to do this???) with a 3.15lt same turbo combo as you currently have. Makes everything that turbo can deliver and to 8k rpm easy.

The issue I wrote about allot is the in line 6cyl is a total shitbox of an engine, they are typically un responsive, so any larger turbo combo and it would be a nugget for road point and squirt duties, but don't know your application so wont comment on suitability for you, other than to add it wont work great on much other than flat shift gearbox 'full noise' use and higher road speed 150kph + range.

Keep in mind this is with dual gate split 1-3 and 4-5 exhaust manifold set up as well.

[Jds14]

1 hour ago, RICE RACING said:

That is weird.

I posted up stacks of info (only one to do this???) with a 3.15lt same turbo combo as you currently have. Makes everything that turbo can deliver and to 8k rpm easy.

The issue I wrote about allot is the in line 6cyl is a total shitbox of an engine, they are typically un responsive, so any larger turbo combo and it would be a nugget for road point and squirt duties, but don't know your application so wont comment on suitability for you, other than to add it wont work great on much other than flat shift gearbox 'full noise' use and higher road speed 150kph + range.

Keep in mind this is with dual gate split 1-3 and 4-5 exhaust manifold set up as well.

Interesting. I have plenty of responce. Have over 20 psi by 3k rpm. Makes 300kw by 3k and 500kw at 5k. Maxs out at 544ke at 25psi at 7600rpm. Changing to 1.45 rear should help with this. But was just wandering how much better the 9280 would be. 

[Myskyliner33]

Hi all

 

Currently building a nitto 2.8 with cnc head tomei pro 270 10.25 cams for my 33 gtr. Was going to run a 8374 for a responsive street car but have decided to change the box to a 34 item for strength.

With changing the box im going to retain the 4:1 ratio and was looking to change the turbo to either a  9174 or 9180 and retain the response but gain a few more hp up top. 

What are your thoughts and has anyone run a combo above and can tell me what it's like to drive. 

I'm not looking for power numbers as I just want a responsive car that is fast. What sort of full boost rpm will i be looking at.

 

Cheers

Neal

[RICE RACING]

5 hours ago, Jds14 said:

Interesting. I have plenty of responce. Have over 20 psi by 3k rpm. Makes 300kw by 3k and 500kw at 5k. Maxs out at 544ke at 25psi at 7600rpm. Changing to 1.45 rear should help with this. But was just wandering how much better the 9280 would be. 

What cams do you have in it? Got any logs from the road in 1st 2nd gears etc?

I see what you mean though

[Full-Race Geoff]

2 hours ago, Myskyliner33 said:

Currently building a nitto 2.8 with cnc head tomei pro 270 10.25 cams for my 33 gtr. Was going to run a 8374 for a responsive street car but have decided to change the box to a 34 item for strength.  With changing the box im going to retain the 4:1 ratio and was looking to change the turbo to either a  9174 or 9180 and retain the response but gain a few more hp up top. 

What are your thoughts and has anyone run a combo above and can tell me what it's like to drive. I'm not looking for power numbers as I just want a responsive car that is fast. What sort of full boost rpm will i be looking at.

I recommend 8474.  considering your stated goal of "I'm not looking for power numbers as I just want a responsive car that is fast." -- efr 8474 with 1.05 is pretty much ideal.  Of course you could go to a 1.45 a/r or a larger compressor still but that goes away from what you are looking for.  Also, the 4.111 final drive and 6speed R34 box is a fantastic combination for responsive street car.  I really enjoy those ratios

4 hours ago, Jds14 said:

Interesting. I have plenty of responce. Have over 20 psi by 3k rpm. Makes 300kw by 3k and 500kw at 5k. Maxs out at 544ke at 25psi at 7600rpm. Changing to 1.45 rear should help with this. But was just wandering how much better the 9280 would be. 

 

13 hours ago, Jds14 said:

Hey guys. Anyone have an opinion on an efr 9280 on a 3.2l. I currently have a 9180 with 1.05 rear housing but it falls over after about 5k rpm as the turbo is out of puff. Was consideribg putting 1.45 rear. 

the 9180 with 1.05 a/r really should not be out of breath by 5000 rpm on a 3.2L engine.  I suggest to perform a boost leak test, exhaust leak test and also take a good look at the wastegate setup for leakage and inspect the exhaust system for restrictions such as collapsed muffler or failed flex section.  Very likely something is going on, A turbo speed sensor is a good idea also becuase it will make troubleshooting much easier.  high turbo speed = boost leak.  low turbo speed = exhaust or wg leak

14 hours ago, Lithium said:

 

I would like to experiment with a function or table that will correlate shaft speed to wastegate position.  it would be neat to drop the boost such that your riding the max turbo speed settings rather than a particular boost target .Shaft speed rises very quickly as you may know so a PID feedback loop seems appropriate to me. 

in the motec, I couldn't find a direct way to do this.  I have a well known pikes peak customer I work with who run two tables - they map both boost target and wastegate position feed forward based on altitude so we are able to closely control the turbo rpm. We also have a turbo rpm limit which opens the wastegate if we over spin the turbo. There are a couple of parameters to adjust with that limit but it is not intended to control turbo rpm. We tried last year without success, so contacted motec who told us this is designed as a safety limit and isn't sophisticated enough as a control.  Although this appears to be easy to make work with the syvecs / life racing system... so im intrigued

[Myskyliner33]

Hi,

 

I should have been a little clearer, I am able to get the 3 turbos i mentioned at a good price so i had not considered the 8474. so if i could only have the options of the 8374, 9174 or the 9180 would you say the 8374 would still be the best and how much in on boost response would i loose going to the larger 91 size turbos. 

 

Cheers,

Neal

[RICE RACING]

9 hours ago, Full-Race Geoff said:

in the motec, I couldn't find a direct way to do this.  I have a well known pikes peak customer I work with who run two tables - they map both boost target and wastegate position feed forward based on altitude so we are able to closely control the turbo rpm. We also have a turbo rpm limit which opens the wastegate if we over spin the turbo. There are a couple of parameters to adjust with that limit but it is not intended to control turbo rpm. We tried last year without success, so contacted motec who told us this is designed as a safety limit and isn't sophisticated enough as a control.  Although this appears to be easy to make work with the syvecs / life racing system... so im intrigued

and THIS is why you deal with a company that is not just using a soldering iron and outsourcing manufacture to make a box of electrics (of which there are many such types) but rather a company who actually makes engines that compete at the top levels of motorsports you just cant beat that, and there is no one else who is more experienced with turbocharged engines than Life Racing !

Why indeed LOL