Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[KiwiRS4T]

On 9/28/2019 at 10:37 AM, zErTeK[2k] said:

Its a 9280 not a 9274 not sure why powertune put 9274.

They also pushed it a bit more, im not sure what the shaft speed is on this run, knowing the owner there is a good chance he told them not to worry about shaft speed. 

 

So what was the KW and max revs?

[Full-Race Geoff]

On 9/27/2019 at 11:46 PM, welshy_32ZILA said:

Hi Geoff,

Quick question, reading on your website in regard to 84/92 variant efrs and it states not to use a oil restrictor as the turbo has one internally. Does that mean you wouldn't run a Turbosmart oil pressure reg either which are meant to supply a max of 40psi to the turbo from my understanding?  

borgwarner requested that we make a note of this on our website.  However i have used oil restrictors on subarus and other high oil pressure applications without issue.

Turbosmart's OPR is a good product, i would have zero hesitation recommending it

[Lithium]

3 hours ago, Full-Race Geoff said:

borgwarner requested that we make a note of this on our website.  However i have used oil restrictors on subarus and other high oil pressure applications without issue.

Turbosmart's OPR is a good product, i would have zero hesitation recommending it

While you're here... I recently tuned a car with an S300SX 8376 with .91a/r hotside on an RB30DET and it performed very nicely - the spool is epic, though it it was out of it's depth quite quickly... not really having the compressor flow to happily supply a nice 20psi of boost to redline.   

We are looking at getting a 61.4mm S300SX-E 8376 supercore to drop into the same turbine housing with the intention of stretching the power out a bit more while giving away little or nothing if possible - question is, we are hoping that it is a straight drop in replacement.  Is there anything we may not have thought of or be aware of which may need changing to integrate the S300SXE core to the existing setup?   

 

Cheers

Edited October 1, 2019 by Lithium

[Full-Race Geoff]

On 10/1/2019 at 5:03 PM, Lithium said:

I recently tuned a car with an S300SX 8376 with .91a/r hotside on an RB30DET and it performed very nicely - the spool is epic, though it it was out of it's depth quite quickly... not really having the compressor flow to happily supply a nice 20psi of boost to redline.   We are looking at getting a 61.4mm S300SX-E 8376 supercore to drop into the same turbine housing with the intention of stretching the power out a bit more while giving away little or nothing if possible - question is, we are hoping that it is a straight drop in replacement.  Is there anything we may not have thought of or be aware of which may need changing to integrate the S300SXE core to the existing setup?  

hi Lith,

the 61.4mm SXE is an excellent turbo, no question.  Two additional considerations are whether it makes sense to step up to the 63mm or 64.5mm SXE?  These all share the same 76mm turbine wheel, therefore they all are drop in plug and play supercore swaps for the same turbine housing. 

Full-Race has these turbos in stock at all times if your customer would like a quote let me know and I can help

[Lithium]

8 hours ago, Full-Race Geoff said:

the 61.4mm SXE is an excellent turbo, no question.  Two additional considerations are whether it makes sense to step up to the 63mm or 64.5mm SXE?  These all share the same 76mm turbine wheel, therefore they all are drop in plug and play supercore swaps for the same turbine housing. 

 

Cheers, thought so - was partly thinking about oil feed/drain location and type.  

Yeah there was discussion about the 63 and 64.5, but for the significant increase in compressor size there isn't really a huge improvement in compressor flow relative to the initial step up in flow (>10%) going to the 61mm SX-E and we're really keen to try and have our cake and eat it to in terms of sacrificing response for extra flow up high.   It's also handy that a local supplier has a 68/76mm S361SXE (their 63 and 64.5 have 73/80mm turbines) which will cost us less than ordering from overseas and paying freight and tax haha.  

 

Will post a comparison after it's done, it'd be very nice to stretch the power out more - even with it going flat at 5500rpm it is a very hearty power delivery/fast road car.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Lithium

[Looney_Head]

2 hours ago, Lithium said:

Cheers, thought so - was partly thinking about oil feed/drain location and type.  

Yeah there was discussion about the 63 and 64.5, but for the significant increase in compressor size there isn't really a huge improvement in compressor flow relative to the initial step up in flow (>10%) going to the 61mm SX-E and we're really keen to try and have our cake and eat it to in terms of sacrificing response for extra flow up high.   It's also handy that a local supplier has a 68/76mm S361SXE (their 63 and 64.5 have 73/80mm turbines) which will cost us less than ordering from overseas and paying freight and tax haha.  

 

Will post a comparison after it's done, it'd be very nice to stretch the power out more - even with it going flat at 5500rpm it is a very hearty power delivery/fast road car.

i'm really looking forward to seeing what difference there is between the two. the car is rather rapid with the 8375

[welshy_32ZILA]

Finally... 

I've got some good news. My gtr is tuned. Bit of a push but we managed to make 502kw at the rear wheels on 36psi with tb seals leaking. My head and cams are seeming to be the restriction. Going from the data.

I haven't had a chance to drive it yet as I have a 4wd code that's come up since removing the abs. 

[Lithium]

13 hours ago, welshy_32ZILA said:

Finally... 

I've got some good news. My gtr is tuned. Bit of a push but we managed to make 502kw at the rear wheels on 36psi with tb seals leaking. My head and cams are seeming to be the restriction. Going from the data.

 

Not a bad result if there are issues - interested in any data you have to share?  

Might be quite hard to tell if the head/cams are an issue if you have a boost leak, that has potential to mess with the data (and performance) somewhat

[welshy_32ZILA]

1 hour ago, Lithium said:

Not a bad result if there are issues - interested in any data you have to share?  

Might be quite hard to tell if the head/cams are an issue if you have a boost leak, that has potential to mess with the data (and performance) somewhat

I don't think the boost leak is huge. Emap is showing us that the rear housing /head cams aren't flowing enough to push anymore. Turbo is showing good potential at only 115k rpm we still have a bit of head room there. 

I'll post up a few screen shots of logs soon. 

[R32 TT]

29 minutes ago, welshy_32ZILA said:

I don't think the boost leak is huge. Emap is showing us that the rear housing /head cams aren't flowing enough to push anymore. Turbo is showing good potential at only 115k rpm we still have a bit of head room there. 

I'll post up a few screen shots of logs soon. 

Which turbo and what rear housing are you using - on what size engine etc?

And what emap/map are you seeing roughly?

Edited October 15, 2019 by R32 TT

[Lithium]

1 hour ago, welshy_32ZILA said:

I don't think the boost leak is huge. Emap is showing us that the rear housing /head cams aren't flowing enough to push anymore. Turbo is showing good potential at only 115k rpm we still have a bit of head room there. 

I'll post up a few screen shots of logs soon. 

It'll be interesting to see The boost and rpm that it's at when it's doing 115krpm would be good info, especially EMAP.  

I'm not sure what you've looked at or considered so far, but 115krpm only gets "on the map" at around 26psiG - and at that point would already be representing just over 90lb/min of flow which SHOULD be comfortably over 500kw @ wheels on E85.   At that point the extra 12,000rpm turbine speed only represents about 3-4% more compressor flow.

You mentioned 36psi, at that point it should be flowing around 84lb/min at 115krpm - so definitely more modest airflow, I would have expected more power than that still but not sure how the dyno you are using reads etc.   Fwiw there should be 12-13% more airflow between 115krpm and 127krpm max speed, so if everything else is working properly and its just how the dyno reads then that still suggests there is the airflow available for 560-570wkw at max compressor speed which is hearty.

 

 

 

 

[welshy_32ZILA]

Basic 2.6 build.

Cp pistons, eagle rods, arp 2000 headstuds. Tomei 260 9.15mm cams. I don't think the head has been touched. 

BW EFR 8474 with 1.05 t4 rear, 6boost twin 40mm gate manifold, Custom 4" exhaust twin. CPC 90mm Intercooler. E85, BM 1650cc inj, 2x Bosch 044s.

Seeing 30psi at 5k. Map/Emap are very similar from 5k onwards. Inj are pretty much done at 85%. 

As for the dyno number I can't be sure as in whether it's harsh or happy, its a mainline 2wd setup strapped pretty tightly. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by welshy_32ZILA
Missed information

[welshy_32ZILA]

Dyno chart from the 502kw pull. 

On a side not don't send your car to the tuner with 12mth old e85. It doesn't help. ?‍♂️

Edited October 15, 2019 by welshy_32ZILA
Missed information

[R32 TT]

3 minutes ago, welshy_32ZILA said:

Seeing 30psi at 5k. Map/Emap are very similar from 5k onwards. Inj are pretty much done at 85%. 

 

Ah ok - so 1:1?    (can't be...)   Or 2:1 (unlikely, surely?)       

What makes you say that eMAP is showing a rectriction.  If MAP=eMAP from 5k onwards, that's not really restrictive I would not have thought.    If you're out of Injectors I'd and pushing 36psi I'd say you're on a low reading dyno at a guess....

[burn4005]

That's quite low power for the boost on that turbo I would have thought. 

My 2.6 with 260 type B cams an an 8374 1.05 at 27psi made 495wkw on a mainline. 

 

Are you running a crank trigger? 

Edited October 15, 2019 by burn4005

[welshy_32ZILA]

19 minutes ago, burn4005 said:

That's quite low power for the boost on that turbo I would have thought. 

My 2.6 with 260 type B cams an an 8374 1.05 at 27psi made 495wkw on a mainline. 

 

Are you running a crank trigger? 

Yea running a kulig kit. I'm not too phased on the dyno number to be honest burn. Last time I rolled off the dyno with 460hp I was surprising people with nearly the same in kw. 

 

[welshy_32ZILA]

36 minutes ago, R32 TT said:

Ah ok - so 1:1?    (can't be...)   Or 2:1 (unlikely, surely?)       

What makes you say that eMAP is showing a rectriction.  If MAP=eMAP from 5k onwards, that's not really restrictive I would not have thought.    If you're out of Injectors I'd and pushing 36psi I'd say you're on a low reading dyno at a guess....

Yes  1:1. How can't it be 1:1? 36psi on intake ~36psi in exhaust manifold. If emap was lower we cld push more boost till the emap rises all depends on where the tuner wants the ratio between map:emap.

 

[R.3.2.G.T.R]

22 minutes ago, welshy_32ZILA said:

Yea running a kulig kit. I'm not too phased on the dyno number to be honest burn. Last time I rolled off the dyno with 460hp I was surprising people with nearly the same in kw. 

 

How is boost being controlled, does taper off ~25psi towards the end

[Lithium]

57 minutes ago, welshy_32ZILA said:

Dyno chart from the 502kw pull. 

On a side not don't send your car to the tuner with 12mth old e85. It doesn't help. ?‍♂️

 

53 minutes ago, R32 TT said:

Ah ok - so 1:1?    (can't be...)   Or 2:1 (unlikely, surely?)       

What makes you say that eMAP is showing a rectriction.  If MAP=eMAP from 5k onwards, that's not really restrictive I would not have thought.    If you're out of Injectors I'd and pushing 36psi I'd say you're on a low reading dyno at a guess....

100% agreed, 1:1 suggests it's FAR from restrictive.  It's very very impressive, but it also looks like it's probably reasonable to believe because....

4 minutes ago, R.3.2.G.T.R said:

How is boost being controlled, does taper off ~25psi towards the end

If you read @R32 TT's comment and he reads yours - the picture starts getting drawn.  If you've ever looked at how emap tends to behave, it seems very much like he has let boost climb until EMAP is starting to catch IMAP and then dropping boost to stop EMAP from running away as the rpm increases.   Reading between the lines the whole thing has been done very risk adverse/being very gentle on it - if you can call peaking at 37psi and making 500kw "gentle" on an RB26 haha.  But you know what I mean.

It seems from all that has been said that the EFR8474 is doing this really quite easily, which is pretty impressive considering this would be a very fast fun road car.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Lithium

[welshy_32ZILA]

Apologies I may have mis wrote my post. Tuner stated that the cam and head setup was a restriction. Yea it tapers off quite a bit to match the emap. There's maybe a little more in the last 1000rpm but not a huge amount. 

Boost control is 4port via the emtron