Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[usmair]

4 hours ago, Count Grantleyish said:

 

What manifold and gate are you running?

 

Crg manifold single gate but has the split pulse thing.

I have a really old style tial 60mm gate which came with the t04z which was on the car. Probably isn't helping response but I cbf spending more money to go newer version.

[Count Grantleyish]

20 minutes ago, usmair said:

Crg manifold single gate but has the split pulse thing.

I have a really old style tial 60mm gate which came with the t04z which was on the car. Probably isn't helping response but I cbf spending more money to go newer version.

No boost spikes or control issues with single gate?

[Lithium]

No reason there should be any issue using a single gate - using a single gate to control boost on a single turbo is hardly a new or unproven concept.

[Count Grantleyish]

Yeah, that's what I thought. Apparently some people have issues with split pulse manifold that has me wondering.

[Mick_o]

The odds of having a perfectly seated gate on a divider plate are very slim particularly with the expansion and contraction a manifold will go through with such a large range of heat cycles.

 Its gunna pass gasses between pulses that are meant to be split and create pressure differences between each side of the manifold. 

The divider plate in the wastegate line is usually a piece of sheetmetal plate welded into a piece of pipe or an elbow which probably isnt completely seal welded all the way through isn't gunna last long in that environment. With a few tack welds holding it in its place its destined to break those welds and end up somewhere it doesn't belong. 

 Yes i know I'm being picky and its only "my theory" but i think it poses too many flaws to an optimised twin scroll set up and also jeopardizes the reliability and generally speaking eliminates issues within your setup. 

In all honesty if you can afford to buy a nice twin scroll manifold and a split pulse housing turbo SPEND an extra grand on the extra gate, some AN fittings and fab work hooking another gate up... If you can't "afford it" be a good lil saver and hold off a few more weeks till you save those extra bucks for a twin gate setup! 

Reality is its probably not even a grand when you consider the cost of 1 big gate vs 2 smaller gates and the potential time and money saved on dyno time etc. 

When you're paying $120+ an hour for a shop to work on your car that "money saved" on not buying that  extra gate can soon take a backwards turn. 

 

 

[BakemonoRicer]

1 hour ago, Mick_o said:

The odds of having a perfectly seated gate on a divider plate are very slim particularly with the expansion and contraction a manifold will go through with such a large range of heat cycles.

 Its gunna pass gasses between pulses that are meant to be split and create pressure differences between each side of the manifold. 

The divider plate in the wastegate line is usually a piece of sheetmetal plate welded into a piece of pipe or an elbow which probably isnt completely seal welded all the way through isn't gunna last long in that environment. With a few tack welds holding it in its place its destined to break those welds and end up somewhere it doesn't belong. 

 Yes i know I'm being picky and its only "my theory" but i think it poses too many flaws to an optimised twin scroll set up and also jeopardizes the reliability and generally speaking eliminates issues within your setup. 

In all honesty if you can afford to buy a nice twin scroll manifold and a split pulse housing turbo SPEND an extra grand on the extra gate, some AN fittings and fab work hooking another gate up... If you can't "afford it" be a good lil saver and hold off a few more weeks till you save those extra bucks for a twin gate setup! 

Reality is its probably not even a grand when you consider the cost of 1 big gate vs 2 smaller gates and the potential time and money saved on dyno time etc. 

When you're paying $120+ an hour for a shop to work on your car that "money saved" on not buying that  extra gate can soon take a backwards turn. 

 

 

yup, do it once do it right

heck im just a goon SR20 owner and even ive bit the bullet n gone twin gate.....

the tial mv-s 38millers are nice lil compact units....

my 6boost egt equipped mani rocks up this week......should have the 7670 on and sorted in the next couple weeks.

[MaximuSmurf]

10 hours ago, BakemonoRicer said:

yup, do it once do it right

heck im just a goon SR20 owner and even ive bit the bullet n gone twin gate.....

the tial mv-s 38millers are nice lil compact units....

my 6boost egt equipped mani rocks up this week......should have the 7670 on and sorted in the next couple weeks.

Very curious to see how your sr20 goes. Det or ve? I've got a 7163 t4 Ts internal gate on full race Mani on my sr20det. So keen to see what your response is like going to a 7670.

What do you use the car for? Assuming you'll be getting around 380rwkw on that setup. 

[burn4005]

The divider in the 6 boost manifold is VERY impressive fab work.

Very thick 6mm plate , fully welded all the way through and the end is profiled to the face of the gate valve.

Before installing I disassembled my 50mm progate to confirm fitment of the seat, valve and gate housing to the manifold and it was an excellent fit.

[usmair]

Should be on the dyno this afternoon, with 34 psi up its ass.

[burn4005]

[Buraz]

34psi??? Iv got one myself and it’s nowhere near that atm and I’m at about 490kw at 25psi. Have you guys actually started tuning or was it just decided to run 34psi. Hope you have a speed sensor hooked up, I’m too scared to keep it at 28ish psi when we tried as it wasn’t making efficient power. Only gained 15kw with 3psi up it’s ass. Iv ordered one now with a few more changes to make sure it doesn’t go boom and everything’s running mint.

Anyways keep us updated man, I’m keen to know how you go, my one hits the dyno in 2 weeks so will be good to compare

[usmair]

51 minutes ago, Buraz said:

34psi??? Iv got one myself and it’s nowhere near that atm and I’m at about 490kw at 25psi. Have you guys actually started tuning or was it just decided to run 34psi. Hope you have a speed sensor hooked up, I’m too scared to keep it at 28ish psi when we tried as it wasn’t making efficient power. Only gained 15kw with 3psi up it’s ass. Iv ordered one now with a few more changes to make sure it doesn’t go boom and everything’s running mint.

Anyways keep us updated man, I’m keen to know how you go, my one hits the dyno in 2 weeks so will be good to compare

34psi was an educated guess based on how my head performed with the 8374. Speed sensor is hooked up this time so it'll be interesting to see the turbine speed at that boost level.

Update - the car before mine was supposed to be a quick touch up but has turned into a big job so mine hasn't gone on. Rescheduled to tomorrow afternoon.

Edited February 12, 2018 by usmair

[BakemonoRicer]

10 hours ago, MaximuSmurf said:

Very curious to see how your sr20 goes. Det or ve? I've got a 7163 t4 Ts internal gate on full race Mani on my sr20det. So keen to see what your response is like going to a 7670.

What do you use the car for? Assuming you'll be getting around 380rwkw on that setup. 

It's DET.  The head is done by NAPREC with their Tsukuba spec race port. Squish pads are gone too.

I had plans to take the car to the circuit but I think I'll just enjoy it on the street every now and then.

380rwkw is the number I've heard too, but we will cap it at 330rwkw for now.

Will be running 0.7 bar wastegate springs to bring it on progressively....it's a 1200kg car so the biggest challenge will be getting the power to the ground. I'm considering running traction control via the ECU / 4 wheel speed sensors.

The reality is VE can pump serious numbers but power is ALWAYS made at high RPM. It's an NA head and I don't particularly want my bottom end to get pummelled by 9000rpm worth of e-fame every shift.

For a drag car or million dollar time attack car - VE. For a scary fast street / weekend track car - DET will do the job with less RPM and the bottom end will last longer. DONE.

 

 

[Buraz]

34psi was an educated guess based on how my head performed with the 8374. Speed sensor is hooked up this time so it'll be interesting to see the turbine speed at that boost level.
Update - the car before mine was supposed to be a quick touch up but has turned into a big job so mine hasn't gone on. Rescheduled to tomorrow afternoon.

Ahhh okay!! I’m keen as to see what you get mate. Best of luck today mate [emoji1377]

[acsplit]

Here is a result from Andrew Dennis on his CA18DET with EFR 8374 1.05 EXT I think.

[Mick_o]

What a beast the 8374 is! Even on an old 1.8L looks like shit gets serious around the 5K zone! 

Id imagine itd be a bit doughy in the lower gears but considering its a 79lb snail it doesn't look too shabby at all! 

 

Plus there is the EFR magic thats not seen on the dyno so it probably drives better than the sheet makes it out to ?

[acsplit]

He does have a speed sensor but the Halaltech wouldn't display the data even though the sensor is working..

I told him to put more garlic sauce on the ecu. I will wait for his feedback after driving it.

[burn4005]

I'm guessing the dyno wasn't pointing at Mecca, which can cause problems.

[Buraz]

Any news Usmair??

[usmair]

10 minutes ago, Buraz said:

Any news Usmair??

515kw @ 30 psi 109,000 RPM turbine speed. 

Stock head not too happy and very close to 116,000 max speed

Next stop 32psi