Borg Warner EFR Series Turbo's V 2.0

[reaper]

19 hours ago, usmair said:

First semi decent run.... On 29psi, have wound up boost controller to try and get 31psi back

Good meeting you last night Umair! Plenty of mph there just need to get it down to the ground off the launch and it'll be easy 10's

[s2d4]

Considering the initial issues with production, and the fact that overspeeding may contribute to the Ti wheel failure I would think ensuring that they are below the max. speed would be important. This may have been mentioned, is warranty voided with overspeeding? If it can be proven one way or the other I suppose.

Yeah, seems weird that the majority of the people aren't able to provide any turbo speed logs..

[Meathead]

9 hours ago, bigmikespec said:

Considering the initial issues with production, and the fact that overspeeding may contribute to the Ti wheel failure I would think ensuring that they are below the max. speed would be important. This may have been mentioned, is warranty voided with overspeeding? If it can be proven one way or the other I suppose.

If you run your data through matchbot it will give you a ballpark rpm figure and I am sure there is a good safety factor built in to BW recommended max rpm.

If your setup is close to BW max then buy a tacho setup or a bigger turbo in the first instance.

Running　２２psi on mine and occasionally overboost to ３０ which is redlining it I guess but I am sure it can handle it.

Cannot be bothered spending heaps for a paranoid gauge. 

 

 

 

[s2d4]

20 minutes ago, Meathead said:

Cannot be bothered spending heaps for a paranoid gauge. 

That's a load of bs, it's 150 additional.

Paranoid? The spec says so, engineers don't make this out of thin air, don't give me that bro science crap please. 

Sorry but this made me want to strangle a baby. 

[Meathead]

No bro science mate, you need to chill out a bit.

[acsplit]

f**k I love my - 5 3ltr setup right now [emoji23]

Until they eventually shit themselves from lots of track work

Oh sorry this is the EFR thread

[s2d4]

17 minutes ago, Meathead said:

you need to chill out a bit.

Sorry, I work with guys like that everyday and it gets to me every now and then when the same people proceed to tell me how my design works. Hint: It's the same guys that break shit and tell me they followed the specs of operation. 

Anyway, carry on. 

Edited September 29, 2016 by s2d4

[HarrisRacing]

Khezz et. all.

I received a message from a moderator that I was out of line digging on you in the EFR turbos thread - so I'll formally apologize now. I didn't mean for my words to come off as harsh and was really just trying to queue you in that the past history of the other thread was that it went south from some people who made lots of claims about other turbos without accompanying data and started basically running our thread in the ground with those claims. I have tried very hard to stay purely objective because you will find that a lot of the EFR guys respond with "This turbo is super responsive and is just awesome" - a claim that is hard to backup without LOTS of comparing data. On the other hand it apparently triggers emotional responses from other turbo owners as well. So when others like yourself come in and talk about their decision to choose a turbo other than an EFR for a future theoretical rebuild with no other reasoning than brand name the red flag goes up for some us.

I truly hope you get your car finished and there is a wealth of information out there for setup advice. I have a HUGE build thread that will help you avoid mistakes that I made over the course of my build and again come back to us with some data when you are done. I can tell you that the precisions are pretty dang good turbos and you likely won't be disappointed - I ran one on my last racecar, but I can also tell you that the EFR I am running is truly un-paralleled in overall available features for the money. My wastegate, turbo, blow-off-vlave, boost control solenoid, and very shortly my turbo rpm sensor are wrapped up into one compact package (comparatively speaking) which has so far been an incredible choice for my engine especially given the price for all of it. The match-bot program is the best I have ever seen and I have helped plan 3 other turbo choices for other engines locally. For me, the decision was easy.

I see others are knocking the speed sensor, and it's a totally available option for the EFR. Do I think it's necessity? No. But as a mechanical engineer I will ALWAYS welcome more data and for the sake of the education I am taking the charge and will install it to know EXACTLY where I am at on the compressor map. One HUGE advantage of the EFR is the simplicity of this installation (it's already cast into the compressor housing). Doing this yourself without extensive machine work is a major undertaking on the Precision turbos and even then what would it tell you about where you are on the compressor map?

So please ALL posters start taking into consideration what you are saying and it's intentions. Please qualify your statements with actual data. I have provided LOTS of logs, videos, etc from my setup. So if you come here with "I'm loving my 3.0 L -5 setup" please give us some data to show why or how it compares to other data (spool times, dyno graphs, 1/4 mile times, data logs, etc). I'm running Haltech and I'll post any logs you like on my car (well what I can do on pumpgas for now).

Also To defend the rpm explosion claim and to further stick on topic: Perhaps Geoff could fill us in, but I haven't heard of it happening yet. They run these turbos on the US INDY car circuit here, so they must be good for something!

[HarrisRacing]

Oh and here are some "comparisons" of -7 turbo to 8374 EFR.

Lol - it's on topic, right?

[mr skidz]

[emoji23]

[bigmikespec]

15 hours ago, s2d4 said:

Yeah, seems weird that the majority of the people aren't able to provide any turbo speed logs..

It actually seems like a really clever 'get out of jail free card' for BW... their first response at a failed wheel may be 'you oversped it', no refund. Response from customer would be 'no I didn't'... BW, 'we can tell from the failure you did, we are experts, and you didn't have a speed sensor in to monitor it'.

Synical? Yes, but BW are a huge company who really don't care about people.

However, I would still like to see a 9174 with a 1.45A/R on a stock stroke RB26 revving its ring hole off  But I might let someone else try it first.

[khezz]

Khezz et. all.
I received a message from a moderator that I was out of line digging on you in the EFR turbos thread - so I'll formally apologize now. I didn't mean for my words to come off as harsh and was really just trying to queue you in that the past history of the other thread was that it went south from some people who made lots of claims about other turbos without accompanying data and started basically running our thread in the ground with those claims. I have tried very hard to stay purely objective because you will find that a lot of the EFR guys respond with "This turbo is super responsive and is just awesome" - a claim that is hard to backup without LOTS of comparing data. On the other hand it apparently triggers emotional responses from other turbo owners as well. So when others like yourself come in and talk about their decision to choose a turbo other than an EFR for a future theoretical rebuild with no other reasoning than brand name the red flag goes up for some us.
I truly hope you get your car finished and there is a wealth of information out there for setup advice. I have a HUGE build thread that will help you avoid mistakes that I made over the course of my build and again come back to us with some data when you are done. I can tell you that the precisions are pretty dang good turbos and you likely won't be disappointed - I ran one on my last racecar, but I can also tell you that the EFR I am running is truly un-paralleled in overall available features for the money. My wastegate, turbo, blow-off-vlave, boost control solenoid, and very shortly my turbo rpm sensor are wrapped up into one compact package (comparatively speaking) which has so far been an incredible choice for my engine especially given the price for all of it. The match-bot program is the best I have ever seen and I have helped plan 3 other turbo choices for other engines locally. For me, the decision was easy.
I see others are knocking the speed sensor, and it's a totally available option for the EFR. Do I think it's necessity? No. But as a mechanical engineer I will ALWAYS welcome more data and for the sake of the education I am taking the charge and will install it to know EXACTLY where I am at on the compressor map. One HUGE advantage of the EFR is the simplicity of this installation (it's already cast into the compressor housing). Doing this yourself without extensive machine work is a major undertaking on the Precision turbos and even then what would it tell you about where you are on the compressor map?
So please ALL posters start taking into consideration what you are saying and it's intentions. Please qualify your statements with actual data. I have provided LOTS of logs, videos, etc from my setup. So if you come here with "I'm loving my 3.0 L -5 setup" please give us some data to show why or how it compares to other data (spool times, dyno graphs, 1/4 mile times, data logs, etc). I'm running Haltech and I'll post any logs you like on my car (well what I can do on pumpgas for now).
Also To defend the rpm explosion claim and to further stick on topic: Perhaps Geoff could fill us in, but I haven't heard of it happening yet. They run these turbos on the US INDY car circuit here, so they must be good for something!

Fair call on all accounts. Once again, I never said Efr are a bad turbo. If I have angered any one. I apologise. Staying on topic. How would the 9180 iwg go on the 2.6L in terms of lag and response?

[sneakey pete]

Will say despite being easy was nerve wracking drilling it.

Had it setup on an offset bit, realize now I should have put that on my mates Drill press/mill would have made it easier.

Once it's running all the logs to everyone's hearts content.

[mr skidz]

Did you end up selling the GTX twins sneaky?

[Sub Boy32]

17 hours ago, khezz said:

Fair call on all accounts. Once again, I never said Efr are a bad turbo. If I have angered any one. I apologise. Staying on topic. How would the 9180 iwg go on the 2.6L in terms of lag and response?

We had a standard R34 GTR on the Dyno with no mods other than cam gears,3.5" exhaust, 1000cc injectors and a Link G4+ on 95 octane fuel with a external gated 1.05 9180 and it wasn't too bad......was 18psi by 4500rpm, only took it to 500hp to preserve the engine until it is built as a 2.8

Looked laggyish.....but drove feeling responsive 

[Sub Boy32]

In about a months time I will be able to have a back-to-back comparasion between a 8374 with a 0.92 internal gated turbo on a RB30 and a 8374 with a 1.05 with twin 40mm external gates.

Im changing just the rear housing on the car (other than going to a single E-Throttle).

I will also have a speed sensor, I have had one from the start, but had to make a multiplier as there wasn't one available at the time and I'm not sure it is correct as it shows a max of 125,000rpm. I have now got the unit that Full-Race sells so will see what the speed will be.

My car is on 98 octane pump gas, currently makes 650hp at all four wheels at full boost (20psi) at 3400rpm on a DynaPack Hub Dyno. The reason for change is the high backpressure I'm getting with the small exhaust housing, we can't squeeze anymore than 20psi out of it without it pushing the gate open and causing boost spikes.

Im hoping for a more flatter torque curve and better boost control, I don't necessarily need any more power.....but no doubt it will make a bit more anyway.

[Full-Race Geoff]

21 hours ago, khezz said:

How would the 9180 iwg go on the 2.6L in terms of lag and response?

I ran the 9180 IWG on my 2.6L rb26 for a bit.  It was on full song by 4500 like chris said - but that's a tiny bit laggy for my preference. It made 750whp and broke my R33 trans 4th gear.  Then I installed an R34 6speed trans and really began to appreciate the turbo.  Now that i am putting the car back together i will probably go to a 9174 IWG next

[s2d4]

I ran the 9180 IWG on my 2.6L rb26 for a bit.  It was on full song by 4500 like chris said - but that's a tiny bit laggy for my preference. It made 750whp and broke my R33 trans 4th gear.  Then I installed an R34 6speed trans and really began to appreciate the turbo.  Now that i am putting the car back together i will probably go to a 9174 IWG next

What's the performance difference between the 9180 and 9174?
The higher rpm count with the same front compressor should net more flow? Or is the 9174 choked on the turbine side? If so, what about the 1.45 housing?

[HarrisRacing]

Wish me luck! Still trying pumpgas. Vids and logs to follow.

 

UPDATE************************
11.1 @ 122

Like what with the mph!? Got too aggressive with timing and it knocked at 7k in 3rd and 4th which kinda crushed my mph. Straight off the highway ran 11.47 @ 123.4 everyone was breaking all night so i only got 2 runs. Also this is 100% only 18-19 psi. I'll post logs when i get home.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HarrisRacing]

Also it should be noted that I don't run "antilag" I only have a mapped rev limit vs. speed. At 0 speed I have a 5500 rpms limit that actually is setup to soft cut at 250 rpms before the limit (5250). This limit goes back to 8250 (essentially start soft cut at 8k) everywhere over 2 mph. It's a simple table to make. I found that if I launched with any sort of plus fuel and retarded timing antilag the turbo would spool so fast I would blow tires off the line every time. Just a note...VERY responsive turbo. My brother drove the car home and was just astounded at how well the turbo works with the car for drivability. And to think I'm not on E85 yet and it's likely got 150 more WHP in it!?