Doing a +t conversion on an unopened RB25DE NEO (R34 GT)

[hey_aleks]

On 11/29/2016 at 9:43 PM, DatsunBanana said:

Aleks, how long was the hose for your oil drain. I need to buy a length of that and I'm thinking half a metre should be enough?

Hey! Sorry it took so long to reply buddy.... Yeah half a meter is fine for the hose, hopefully it's flexible enough that it doesn't kink when it goes around the engine mount. 

I can get the exact measurement I used if you want a bit later on?

I've recently picked up a greddy style front facing plenum, 3" HKS dump pipe, HKS top mount manifold, high flowed 45v3 turbo and a 3" exhaust so I'll be putting those parts on my de now and getting it tuned!

We'll see how the plus t goes with a bit of extra boost  

[jap4lyf]

Hey guys!

 I am wondering if any of you can confirm if there is a restrictor in the oil feed banjo bolt as well as the stock oil line? I have been to Pirtek and they have made me a braided oil feed line with the correct fittings and they have put the restrictor at the oil filter end. Do I need a banjo bolt with a restrictor too? (haven't got the stock bolts to check if there's a small hole). And does it matter that the restrictor in the line is 1200mm away on the other side of the engine?

pics are of standard oil line, the hole on the block side is very small (is this the restrictor?) and the other end - bolts to turbo is quite large. 

Some people say theres even a restrictor build into the turbo? 

if one of you could confirm this that would be great! So many conflicting answers on the internet?

have you guys used a restrictor in the oil feed line?

thanks in advance ?

Edited January 15, 2017 by jap4lyf

[DatsunBanana]

Hi. I've not fitted mine yet but I've got stock lines that I'm going to adapt. The feed line is just like your pic - a tiny hole (about 1mm) at the block and a bigger (4mm ish) hole at the turbo end. I'm going to cut the standard line and use the banjo with the tiny hole at the turbo end. I'll run back from there with hose to the tee at the oil pressure sender. So my restrictor will be at the opposite end than stock would be but I don't see that it'll make any difference which end the flow is restricted and I believe one end is enough - whichever it is. As long as there's a restriction in the line/eye somewhere, I can't see why you'd need a bolt with a small bore too.

I've got all the important bits now so should be starting when the weather warms up here and will report back on how it goes.

[jap4lyf]

Thanks for the fast reply mate! Okay awesome that's pretty much what I had in mind anyway. I have a fitting in the turbo for the oil feed which is 12x1.25 to an4 and have got a restrictor that I can put in either end of the line so that will be good. I will be starting this conversion in 2 weeks so will let you know how I go. Thanks for the help [emoji4]

[DatsunBanana]

Been thinking about this again as when I looked at buying the hose (braided hose) the end fittings aren't really well suited to joining on to a cut off hard line. And non-braided hoses don't seem up to the high temp at the turbo end. So now I'm thinking I'll use:

Tee at the pressure sender with an-4 fitting plus 1mm restrictor. Braided hose to an-4 coupler and an-4 12mm banjo at the turbo end. Standard banjo bolt (not restricted).

I also found this post which has an interesting point about adding another restrictor if you find there's too much oil getting through ...

http://www.skylineowners.com/forum/21-tuning-technical-questions/216246-garrett-bb-turbos-restrictors.html

Do you know if 1m of hose is long enough or does it have to be a bit longer? I see yours is 1200.

[jap4lyf]

I've gone with an oil filter sandwich plate over the Tee as I've installed the stock gtt triple gauge cluster and will be having an oil temp gauge in there. I roughly measured it with a bit of rope to see the length I needed and was about 1100mm from the filter, I can let you know next week if it could be shorter or not. Yeah braided hose would be best 1200mm was roughly $70 from pirtek and that was for the highest quality hose they had.

[DatsunBanana]

Fitted my Walbro this evening.

I fitted the GSS 341. In hindsight I think the 342 would have been better with the fuel input and output on the same side. It meant the pump was on a bit of angle in the cradle and I used a hose clamp and cable tie plus some fuel hose as a wedge to hold it steady and stop it popping out of position. Hopefully it'll stand up to it.

I also had to cut the hard pipe on the cradle because the Walbro was too long to fit. Did any of you guys who fitted a Walbro have to do that?

On the plus side, I expected to have to cut and solder the connector but I didn't need to which surprised me. The Nissan connector in the tank fitted straight onto the Walbro but is that what you've found?

[hugh jaynous]

On 21/01/2017 at 3:59 PM, DatsunBanana said:

Fitted my Walbro this evening.

I fitted the GSS 341. In hindsight I think the 342 would have been better with the fuel input and output on the same side. It meant the pump was on a bit of angle in the cradle and I used a hose clamp and cable tie plus some fuel hose as a wedge to hold it steady and stop it popping out of position. Hopefully it'll stand up to it.

I also had to cut the hard pipe on the cradle because the Walbro was too long to fit. Did any of you guys who fitted a Walbro have to do that?

On the plus side, I expected to have to cut and solder the connector but I didn't need to which surprised me. The Nissan connector in the tank fitted straight onto the Walbro but is that what you've found?

Nice, time to do direct voltage mod while your at it for constant voltage or else that pump will be very unhappy. I've also seen alot of kits use the 342 pump over the 341 but as you can see either will work.

Im slowly reaching the point of all parts ready to go on too, got most of the piping stuff and oem tubby for under 600 all together.

Edited January 23, 2017 by hugh jaynous

[DatsunBanana]

I thought about direct voltage - I might do that later but I've done a couple of hundred Kms now with it still NA and Walbro has seemed fine - even a bit more responsive maybe but that might be placebo effect.

Anyway - exciting news is, the car is now in bits and I'm past the point of no return.

Fittings are now in block for oil feed, oil return and water feed. All adapter thread sizes fitted fine as guesstimated.

Manifold and turbo temporarily attached so I could line everything up.

Hard water feed tweaked into shape. Hard water return tweaked into shape.

Injectors are in. I was going to just pop the Y part off the inlet to do this but in the end much easier to pop the entire top part.

Calculated which silicone joiners I need and ordered those.

Cut the J-pipe to fit.

Adapted the power steering reservoir bracket to move it out the way of the J-pipe and dump valve. 

ECU is in.

Intercooler was already in.

Next it's just making up the braided oil lines, making final cuts to IC hard pipes and fitting joins plus a load of gaskets and bolting together to do.

 

 

 

[DatsunBanana]

I got enough fitted to start her up tonight - just for a moment to see what would happen. I didn't have the exhaust on - only the downpipe - and it was about midnight so didn't run it longer than about 5 seconds. Pic shows my mad pipework so I can temporarily run it on idle and check for leaks etc. I've got the AFM connected direct to the throttle body so it can still run NA for the moment. There's nothing coming back from the IC to the inlet at all. Once I've checked it at idle, I'll rev it a bit. The air filter is connected to the turbo inlet and I'll see if the turbo spins up. If so it'll just pump the air through the IC and won't go anywhere - you can see I've just got a yellow spray can cap over the IC cold side outlet.

Hopefully it'll all work tomorrow when I can run it without fear of waking up the neighbours!

I connected to the ECU with DataScan software and it shows error 46 - throttle position sensor - which I think is the traction control. Hopefully I won't get limp mode.

Will keep you posted.

[hugh jaynous]

Nice, coming along really smoothly for your car! How long was you oil feed?  I'm going to be teeing it off the oil pressure sender so just wondering what lengths and how much slack/extra there was for you guys. 

[DatsunBanana]

I bought 1200mm of AN4 PTFE braided for the feed connected to the tee at the pressure sender like you. I connected there with 90 deg swivel fitting and fed it behind the head to the turbo. I bought the 90 deg fitting after I knew which way the tee hole was facing after tightening. Then I held it to length and cut the excess before fitting the AN4 banjo. I'd say I cut about 10cm off so just like Jap4lyf said, it ends up about 1100mm.

[DatsunBanana]

Done :-)

Have put about 20 miles on it. Lots of careful rechecking for leaks, tightening bolts etc. There are still a few bits of tidying to do but it seems to be running fine. Not gone anywhere near full throttle for more than a second yet but even with light throttle it's very torquey and a completely different car. No lag, great spool noises and I've got the BOV blanked off at the mo so lots of chatter - I'm giggling like a girl.

Thanks to everyone in this thread and others for all the help.

[jap4lyf]

Nice job mate, looks good [emoji106]

[hugh jaynous]

just running off the base gtt map from nistune I'm guessing as well ? also where did you grab the pressure source for the waste gate? and last but not least any plans on a boost gauge ? 

[DatsunBanana]

Thanks Guys. It's not even got Nistune - just a stock GTT ECU with a touch less timing. Not got a boost gauge yet so just trusting that the stock actuator is fairly low pressure. I've asked a mate if he's got a spare gauge but if not I ought to get one really just to see what it's doing and not spiking. The actuator feed is off the J-pipe. Right on the bend there's that large hose outlet. It can be tapped perfectly to 1/2" BSPT thread and I've done that and just put a hose barb in there. You can just about see it in the pic. Ask as many questions as you like and I'll do my best to answer.

[DatsunBanana]

Oh, and on the point about the feed for the waste gate actuator, I had two options, the take-off I added to the J-pipe or the nipple on the standard IC cold pipe that I got off a turbo car. It's normally at the end nearest the J-pipe which is the end I had to cut. But instead of cutting off the pipe and losing the nipple I turned the pipe around so the nipple is at the IC end down by the expansion tank. That pipe is quite symmetrical thankfully. I used that for the feed to the power steering pump. A third option would be to get the air outlet pipe (the alloy elbow from the turbo) off an R34 instead of an R33. I noticed in some pics they have a nipple too. However that would show pressure before the IC so from what I understand that's a higher pressure than actually reaches the intake - meaning the actuator is opening sooner than it really needs to (someone can correct me if I'm wrong).

[DatsunBanana]

Can any of you guys who are still NA answer a question for me? I'm not sure if my butterfly valve in the GT inlet manifold is opening and closing correctly now. It's the vacuum operated lever in between the Y pipe. At 4700 RPM the GT ECU sends a signal to the solenoid that operates the butterfly valve. The standard GTT ECU I have should give this signal for the boost pressure solenoid on the same pin and my GT loom should send that signal to the inlet butterfly solenoid - so all should work normally and the signal should change the state of the solenoid valve and move the butterfly. What I don't know is if the vacuum (sourced from the vacuum canister) opens or closes the butterfly. So I'm wondering if the position of the lever on a stock NA when the car is off is the same or different than the position when the car is running in the low/mid rev range (less than 4700). If anyone can check and let me know that would be great.

Mine doesn't seem to change position at 4700 RPM. It does move as I rise above idle and it's behaviour changes depending on whether I block or leave open the pipe that goes to the air filter housing (I've got a pod filter so it's not connected to anything).

If vacuum holds it open I'm tempted to give it a permanent vacuum supply instead of switched and see if it makes a difference as mentioned here ...

 

 

[jap4lyf]

Well my +t conversion has been very successful, really happy with how it came out. Thanks for all the info on this thread, definitely made things easy. Dropped the car off at the tuners today and will let you guys know how much power it makes! Super keen to get it back and take it for a drive [emoji41]

[DatsunBanana]

Nice. looking forward to hearing more :-)