Larger side mount

[paulzy123]

Hello people,

I've never really wanted to have to cut the front of my crash bar or bumper away in the pursuit of going front mount to aid more power but now I'm at the point of needing something larger than my current side mount (r32 gtst trust item) which is only slightly bigger than a r34 side mount. I've thought about it for a long time and got hold of a couple of r34 smic's cut the end tanks off and joined them. The duct to it will also have to be meticulously fabricated in order to maximise flow through it rather than around it which is what I'm led to believe happens when people remove the duct on the standard set up.

It looks pretty meaty but I'm uncertain of the results once it's finished and if all else fails I've a 2jzgte standard side mount to fit instead.

I just wondered if any of you guys have ever had a pop and making intercoolers and what the outcomes were? 

I know it'll probably all go wrong and I'll end up pinging a piston on the dyno knowing my luck! ? but we've got to have go, nothing ventured, nothing gained right? 

Cheers

Paul

Edited November 9, 2016 by paulzy123
Grammar

[GTofuS-T]

Interesting idea, and also interested to see some results, it might even be worth installing before and after IAT sensors to measure standard vs this design.

I have a few points to consider, with nothing really to back it up but my own analytical brain, so here goes:

• The increase in depth isn't going to double the IC's ability to cool, as the air passing through gets heated, it's ability to cool will diminish, I'm sure there's a way to calculate this, from what I've read I'd estimate a 25% increase max. (it may be all you need though)
• The increase in depth will also add resistance to the air going through so that duct is going to be very important
  • to add to this, the gap in between the two i can see causing turbulence and greatly contributing to this as the channels aren't continuous and may not perfectly align, the expansion of the now hot air into this void will also contribute to this turbulence 

 

I've often thought about if i'd ever had to go back to a side mount for defect/rego reasons, or even to minimise lag and pipework on a mostly stock setup, and I think I'd either go water-to-air intercooler where the air box is, with the radiator where the side mount is ($$$), OR I've read of people rigging up a water spray on the standard side mount at a certain RPM to increase the efficiency ($).

Good luck with the fabrication and very interested to see the results regardless!

Cheers,
Mathew

 

[niZmO_Man]

ARC's version

 

[GTofuS-T]

1 hour ago, niZmO_Man said:

ARC's version

 

How many drug moneyz is that though??

[hardsteppa]

i don't think it's a good idea, cause even though more flow thru the double-thickness cooler, it's still a very short travel so less residence time inside the cooler meaning less time for heat transfer...aka, still won't cool that well.

However if it's just a project and not costing you anything/much, just time, then certainly can't hurt and will be better than the stock single core.

[Cassbo]

I'm also curious of the results of this. Like you, I didn't want to trim my front bar to fit a FMIC. I did have an idea of getting a custom SMIC fabbed up from a brand new core, but ultimately never went past that point as there simply was no point in spending that much money on a SMIC when I was only running a standard R34 turbo on wastegate pressure anyway.

 

Keep us posted

[Rekin]

If you throw in the towel, Apexi return-flow r32 front mount requires no cutting & is a direct bolt-on. (Disregard the box in the photo)

[FBRacing]

Why don't you do a water/air cooler? Usually extremely efficient and if resourceful can be cheap in cost.

[KiwiRS4T]

Looks interesting.

I had a go at sticking with the SMIC with a variety of coolers (see below) before going return flow and finally full crossflow FMIC.

I think any side mount is only going to be good for about 220KW and even then a front mount is probably better in hot climates especially. The main thing with yours is fitting it in to the available space and still being able to use the stock hose apertures. Make sure that you fill in all around the front with ducting etc so all the airflow goes through the cooler. And of course if you use any of the coolers below you will have to adapt them because the R32 is the other way round.

Dimensions of side mount intercoolers (Height x width x thickness)

 

Stagea S1 (R33) 210 x 185 x 65

Stagea S2 (R34GTT) 210 x 225 x 80

Trust 195 x 140 x 100

Nismo 200 x 230 x 100

 

ARC M075 WGNC34G 75

ARC M105 WGNC34G 105

ARC M075 ECR33G ? x ? x 75

ARC M105 ER34G 250 x 220 x 105

 

[paulzy123]

On 09/11/2016 at 10:31 PM, GTofuS-T said:

Interesting idea, and also interested to see some results, it might even be worth installing before and after IAT sensors to measure standard vs this design.

I have a few points to consider, with nothing really to back it up but my own analytical brain, so here goes:

• The increase in depth isn't going to double the IC's ability to cool, as the air passing through gets heated, it's ability to cool will diminish, I'm sure there's a way to calculate this, from what I've read I'd estimate a 25% increase max. (it may be all you need though)
• The increase in depth will also add resistance to the air going through so that duct is going to be very important
  • to add to this, the gap in between the two i can see causing turbulence and greatly contributing to this as the channels aren't continuous and may not perfectly align, the expansion of the now hot air into this void will also contribute to this turbulence 

 

I've often thought about if i'd ever had to go back to a side mount for defect/rego reasons, or even to minimise lag and pipework on a mostly stock setup, and I think I'd either go water-to-air intercooler where the air box is, with the radiator where the side mount is ($$$), OR I've read of people rigging up a water spray on the standard side mount at a certain RPM to increase the efficiency ($).

Good luck with the fabrication and very interested to see the results regardless!

Cheers,
Mathew

 

Thanks Matthew,

Yea I've thought about it loads and loads and read up on the whole side mount thing, Even gone so far as to read up a little on Theron dynamics but that started to hurt my head! I think it will aid turbo spool marginally over  a front mount but as more people than not are pointing out to me side mounts just don't work as effectively as front mounts. If you look at the the ducting on stock side mounts the mouth is always smaller than the face of the ic and this is to slow the air passing through the fins and also to stop the air moving around and over and back out of the duct once it hits the resistance of the fins (I think) and so a better heat exchange can take place, there is a point where all parameters cross over and overlap and that's a design sweet spot however I'm just being a "have a go hero" and winging it ?

I had a couple of 34 side mounts collecting dust in my loft at the same time I need to uprate so I thought hey I know and here we are.

I've thought about water sprays but wouldn't want to get a car mapped relying on a water spray as I think the boost pressures the average car runs hasn't really a need for sprays/water meth etc to keep charge temps at bay, most probably just as good to have a decent charge cooler and map, trouble is getting a decent charge cooler that fits in that tiny space! 

 

Thanks for you response

Paul

[paulzy123]

On 10/11/2016 at 0:10 AM, niZmO_Man said:

ARC's version

 

Yea tried finding an ARK side mount.....

i think they're kept in between the buckets of hens teeth and rocking horse ####.

was searching for one for ages but to no avail  

What would an Ark side mound be good for do you know? 200kw-220kw? 

[paulzy123]

On 10/11/2016 at 3:22 AM, hardsteppa said:

i don't think it's a good idea, cause even though more flow thru the double-thickness cooler, it's still a very short travel so less residence time inside the cooler meaning less time for heat transfer...aka, still won't cool that well.

However if it's just a project and not costing you anything/much, just time, then certainly can't hurt and will be better than the stock single core.

Thanks hardstepper.

It was actually you that made me go out and get and fit my shift kit after reading your posts on how you did it yourself, thanks man. 

Yea you are probably right, the likes of big manufacturers spend heaps on designing things so what makes me think I can do better? Lol it is a project and there's no real desperation to get it pukka yet if it works it's a bonus.

Going to complete the end tanks this weekend.

[paulzy123]

On 10/11/2016 at 3:52 AM, Cassbo said:

I'm also curious of the results of this. Like you, I didn't want to trim my front bar to fit a FMIC. I did have an idea of getting a custom SMIC fabbed up from a brand new core, but ultimately never went past that point as there simply was no point in spending that much money on a SMIC when I was only running a standard R34 turbo on wastegate pressure anyway.

 

Keep us posted

My mate text me just the other day saying he fitted his blitz flow return on his gtst spec 2 without any cutting at all but he did have to get a pipe made up.

I'm too far in to turn back now anyway  so I'll just keep plugging away at this.

[paulzy123]

On 10/11/2016 at 4:48 AM, Rekin said:

If you throw in the towel, Apexi return-flow r32 front mount requires no cutting & is a direct bolt-on. (Disregard the box in the photo)

Yep, as said above my mate fitted his without any cutting, typical eh. 

There is something I like about he sleeper (if you can really say a skyline is a sleeper) look, maybe sleeper is the wrong word, the factory look maybe  Thanks for the heads up  

[paulzy123]

On 10/11/2016 at 7:43 AM, FBRacing said:

Why don't you do a water/air cooler? Usually extremely efficient and if resourceful can be cheap in cost.

I've looked at them and that's as far as I got really, do you need switchable maps to run one i.e. When you've got water in it and when it hasn't? Are the gains that good? I've seen people putting ice cubes into there's at the strip, I think trying to keep ice ice till you get to the strip would be a bit too much of a headache but I am intrigued...

[paulzy123]

6 hours ago, KiwiRS4T said:

Looks interesting.

I had a go at sticking with the SMIC with a variety of coolers (see below) before going return flow and finally full crossflow FMIC.

I think any side mount is only going to be good for about 220KW and even then a front mount is probably better in hot climates especially. The main thing with yours is fitting it in to the available space and still being able to use the stock hose apertures. Make sure that you fill in all around the front with ducting etc so all the airflow goes through the cooler. And of course if you use any of the coolers below you will have to adapt them because the R32 is the other way round.

Dimensions of side mount intercoolers (Height x width x thickness)

 

Stagea S1 (R33) 210 x 185 x 65

Stagea S2 (R34GTT) 210 x 225 x 80

Trust 195 x 140 x 100

Nismo 200 x 230 x 100

 

ARC M075 WGNC34G 75

ARC M105 WGNC34G 105

ARC M075 ECR33G ? x ? x 75

ARC M105 ER34G 250 x 220 x 105

 

Thanks man, yea it'll be a pain getting the duct right as it's all bespoke so it'll have to made up as I go. Thanks for the info much appreciated. I know of guys over here that have fitted the Toyota supra side mount on their skylines with a little adaption of their piping. I sourced one for £30 with £40 postage from the USA and that's my contingency plan if my home made job doesn't cut it. They are brutally big and can flow 450 hp.

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by paulzy123

[GTofuS-T]

6 minutes ago, paulzy123 said:

I've looked at them and that's as far as I got really, do you need switchable maps to run one i.e. When you've got water in it and when it hasn't? Are the gains that good? I've seen people putting ice cubes into there's at the strip, I think trying to keep ice ice till you get to the strip would be a bit too much of a headache but I am intrigued...

Water to air intercooler as in this 

 

it's basically using "water" or coolant to cool the charged air, and then that coolant goes through a radiator, closed system, no loss of water at all

The only issue i've read with these is heat soak but that would be a high traffic street problem not a track problem.

[paulzy123]

That's really interesting but seems mad that nobody else has done this or at least a lot more people haven't done this,  the results seem great! Had a look tonight at some and they're not that expensive. Didn't realise they're a closed system ..... shows how much I read up on them..?

[FBRacing]

Sorry I haven't responded any sooner. Holidays are a bitch. Water to air is amazing. The benefits are staggering compared to air to air. Reason why most don't deal with it... really couldn't say. It may be the cost of the system or intimidation. My R33 is air to air but I do own a Honda CRX with water to air. I also have a "ice box" with it to drop in ice on the cooling coils to drop temps even further. Been playing around liquid CO2 too but that's another story[emoji850]. Water to air is a complete closed system. Instead of a front mount intercooler you have another radiator and you intercooler is under the hood inline and just a little before the throttle butterfly. I've found BOV before cooler works better than after. The tricky part is finding a water to air cooler that will flow allow high flow but also do its job cooling. Front mounts are usually only 3 inches thick. Water coolers are sometimes 10-12 inches long. It's all about sq inch. Too tight restricts but cools amazingly, to big flows but doesn't cool and aiding into heat soak. It's a great deal research and experimenting to get it right. At least that was the case for me. eBay kits are cheap but you'll hurt yourself with air temps not where you are wanting them. http://www.siliconeintakes.com/front-mount-intercooler/water-to-air-intercooler-p-1007.html Heres someone's kit but most likely won't do much for you. It's a lot of tuning to get it right. Not nearly as simple as bolting on a front mount but I do encourage you to try, research, and set yourself apart.

[paulzy123]

Hey man thanks for the response, I've been quiet lately and things have stopped on the fabrication of my intercooler after a family situation that we all have to face at some point but we can never fully prepare for.

 

I'll be doing lots of research on the  cooling options and once the weather relents a little I'll be back outside removing he bumper and mucking around with it.

it was -7 degrees the other week over here, not good for working on a car. ☃️❄️?