Driver Training Recommendations

[Steve85]

Driver Training Recommendations

Hi all,

Having just purchased, what I consider to be a somewhat outrageous car, well overpowered and without stability or traction control. I would be interested to hear back from anyone who has completed any advanced driver training.

In particular, I would be keen to hear about training that concentrated on understeer, oversteer and car control. I've previously completed a driver training session that was about safety on the roads (emergency braking, stopping and reactions distances etc).

I'm leaning towards using my own car to complete the training but wouldn't be completely against using a shared car.

I've already looked up a couple and would prefer the training to be priced under 1k for a day. Has anyone done anything similar that they can recommend? Let me know what you've done and how you found it to be. 

Looking forward to hearing what you've been up to.

Edit: I'm in Melbourne but still keen to hear from other states.

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Steve85

[niZmO_Man]

Just do skid pan and track days. I learnt more from one session of a wet track day than I did the entire time I held a license.

[admS15]

Agree with niZmO_Man. Driver dynamics track days at sandown will give you plenty of seat time and a fair bit of 1 on 1 time with a driving instructor giving you pointers. About $350. Would be a good first track day. They also do all sorts of driver training, you can even hire their Ferrari for some hot laps.

[Murray_Calavera]

I agree with the do track days/skid pan days on your own. You say you're prepared to spend $1,000 on the driver training, that is at least 6 track days. I would be amazed if 1 driver training day taught you more then 6 track days.  

[Shoota_77]

Definitely go for the Driver Dynamics day. I'm doing one early next year for the exact same reason. My car will be a 9, I'm a 5....

They give you more opportunity to do laps than you would ever want with a qualified driver trainer who I believe would teach you more about correct racing lines and cornering than 10 solo track days!

And they're bloody cheap!

[blind_elk]

Murcott's - http://www.murcotts.edu.au - is also worth considering.

 

I think if you really want to learn, then a course, with an instructor, will be more beneficial than simply taking part in organised competition.

[JBonDSS]

I have murcotts driver training, road safety/defensive - loved it ( was on my p's) done their Offensive/motorsports course also loved it, now I am look at doing a driving dynamics or track school to refine the lines, once my track can drive around the block with out breaking some part of the rear driveline

[V28VX37]

On 25/11/2016 at 5:54 PM, niZmO_Man said:

Just do skid pan and track days. I learnt more from one session of a wet track day than I did the entire time I held a license.

 

On 25/11/2016 at 6:05 PM, admS15 said:

Agree with niZmO_Man. Driver dynamics track days at sandown will give you plenty of seat time and a fair bit of 1 on 1 time with a driving instructor giving you pointers. About $350. Would be a good first track day. They also do all sorts of driver training, you can even hire their Ferrari for some hot laps.

 

On 25/11/2016 at 6:06 PM, Murray_Calavera said:

I agree with the do track days/skid pan days on your own. You say you're prepared to spend $1,000 on the driver training, that is at least 6 track days. I would be amazed if 1 driver training day taught you more then 6 track days.  

^^^ What they said, just do a guided track day or few and get an instructor in the car for a couple of laps.

I've done Murcott's and another defensive driving instruction day - they're 'ok' for the basics but a lot of it is sitting through lectures with a bunch of L and P platers. I mean theory is good but there's so much online it's not funny - start here http://www.drivingfast.net/ then https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/464443-circuit-racing-learning-online-resources/

To learn about understeer and oversteer you gotta understeer and oversteer. Do a track day.

 

[Steve85]

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback. Sounds a like there is some consensus on a skid pan/track day. This is something I will be doing whenever I have the chance.

I will be doing these, but I am really keen to hear about peoples experiences with driver training. I am sure that i have picked up some bad habits over my last 10+ years of driving and would really like for someone to point them out to me (in a nice way, not like the traffic each morning).

Does anyone have a specific story of when they did their driver training and how their driving improved because they didn't understand where they were going wrong?

In the meantime, i'll go away and read up on my theory. I believe I have a sound idea of how it all works, but ignorant people don't know they're ignorant... right?

 

[V28VX37]

Very mature approach Steve, I like it.

Here's a shortlist of basic stuff that has made some difference for me over the past decade:

• Driving stick in a right hand drive car. I got my license on the other side...
• Learning to brake without clutching in. Weird thing I know but at driving school they taught us to clutch in when emergency braking to avoid stalling, it stuck with me and has been surprisingly hard to unlearn
• Looking up
• Looking where you're going, instead of the obstacle
• Proper seating position close enough to the wheel
• Adjusting mirrors for maximum vision – and using them!
• Keeping enough distance from the car in front. Super basic but Melbournians are shocking with this
• Heel-and-toe downshifting
• Aiming for consistency not outright pace on the track

I think the vision and the seating position were the main things I heard about repeatedly in the driver training, but obviously you need to practice on your own time. Think of it as homework that you actually want to do

I'm currently dabbling with left-foot braking, quite hard to modulate and it's a bit of mental gymnastics to remember what you're using the left foot for when. Might be useful for a sequence of similar-speed same gear corners on the track.

[Leroy Peterson]

I did an Advanced Driving Course with John Bowe's company, I cant remember how much but it was a good day. Some theory in the morning thats helpful, they get in the car with you, demonstrate correct seating and other cabin stuff. Then they set up a slalom, a braking point and a corner and instructed you on different things to aim for. It was a good day. Not exactly cheap and most people had stock cars, but I certainly got something out of it. Then I did a Performance Driving course at Sandown. No more than 6-8 cars on the track at a time, professional coaching in each outing if you wanted. They would drive your car if you handed over the keys to allow any pointers. Obviously more expensive than a normal track day, but a guy there did something like 50+ laps by the end of the day. Written suggestions and tips from your coach afterwards. No timing, but could ask people to time you with a stop watch. The 2 courses went hand-in-hand and they didnt want you in the Performance Course if you hadn't done the Advanced (maybe with at least a track day under your sleeve they might).

I didnt really know anyone in SAU at the time so was pretty worried going to my first track day with no experience, so those days at least gave me a chance to digest track rules and confidence. Now I help out with Driver Training sessions for SAU Vic, will provide pointers or tips if they want it, otherwise its just to make sure they're comfortable and not a hazard really.

TL;DR: John Bowe's courses were worth the money, but obviously more pricey than Motorkhana/hillclimb/skidpan/track day. Experienced drivers use those days for coaching too.

[niZmO_Man]

Driver training is good. I heard a tip off a fellow member (who got it from the instructor) to look ahead at the next corner, instead of watching the corner you're already in.

[Steve85]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and tips. I used to have some advanced skills in a car (thanks to driving like a tool). I used to be that idiot ripping through traffic and driving way too fast everywhere. After losing my licence, i pulled my head in and have only gotten a single point off my licence in the last 7 years. 

I used to be able to heal and toe and was just getting into left foot braking. I know for a fact (I can feel it) that i used to have better car control and better reactions. However, the chances of me crashing nowadays are extremely slim compared to my early years. The truth is, i have no idea if I still posses these skills or if they are gone. I literally sit on the freeway on the morning on cruise going against the traffic and now my wife says i drive like a grandpa, i figure, as long as we get there in one piece, I've done my job. 

Now with a family and responsibilities the stakes are high, so I'm not just going to go out and go crazy in the new car, that's the plan and all your pointers are well received. I shall be taking it super easy and trying to learn as much as possible without damaging the car, myself or my licence. 

Thanks again everyone for your input. Good to have some theory and some practical stuff to look into.

[blind_elk]

On 28/11/2016 at 9:14 AM, Steve85 said:

Does anyone have a specific story of when they did their driver training and how their driving improved because they didn't understand where they were going wrong?

 

I did the Murcott course a LONNNNGG time ago, b4 Waverley Park was built. And b4 much of the housing development; we actually used the streets of a housing development for our braking exercises. Then we had fun driving up and down Mt Dandy Tourist Rd, above the elbow to practise getting apexes right.

I had always had trouble with the esses at Winton; I understood the basics of cornering, picking the apex, etc, but couldn't figure the second part of esses. The answer was so simple - take a later apex on the first corner (L hander) so you end up closer to the left of the track, better set up for the next corner (R hander).

And it's where I learned threshold braking - being able to slam on the brakes and stop quickly without lockup (no ABS to help back then).

[Steve85]

Old thread re-hashed. I have received a driver dynamics oass for early 2017. So ill be able to trakck the car with some helpful person assisting me with my lack of skills.
In my opinion the car has too much power for the road so i am hoping its a little more usable on the track.