Can you remove a stock rb25 turbo without jacking up the car?

[inmaniac]

Dude. You're doing EXACTLY what I did with my old RB25 R32.

I'm going to tell you what I had to do, exactly, to get it going. No, this isn't a performance guide, but this is what I did to get running. You are using the exact same shitty ebay turbo I did.

1. You need a silicone 90deg to replace the stock J-pipe. (Done)

2. You need to modify the oil drain. (Done?)

3. I replaced the oil drain gasket, the one that came with the kit didn't fit properly.

4. I had to modify the coolant return by cutting the metal and inserting a piece of hose and then securing it.

5. I had to cut and weld my front pipe as it shifted position with the new turbo. (Looks like you're fine?)

6. What is currently being discussed: You need a 3in > 2in reducer and a 2in pipe so you can clamp to your stock intake. This is not the best method but I ran my car like this for 2 years without issue on 12psi boost. A metal intake is still best.

As above, boost is controller can be connected via the blue hose.

You've overreacting imho to what is an easy fix for where you're at. I just hope you've put in all the washers we've previously discussed.

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by inmaniac

[sonicz]

I think I have to clarify a few things as to how things are. Now, I'm not a black woman but In this case I have to say "Dont you judge me", when it comes to trying to spend more money that I absolutely need to. I cannot just buy whatever scotty makes because to me it most definitely does matter how much he asks for because I dont have an unlimited supply of money, In fact 'Im broke. I'm willing to accept donations however if there is someone who it does not matter to..

I have also decided not to spend more than I need to anymore because thats how I've been most of my life and its gotten me nowhere, to so I have to abide by that decision. I used to replace and fix every nook and cranny on my cars, I'm talking 12k+ on cars I bought for 7k drove a few years and then sold for 3k even thought they were mint condition due to depreciation.

Back to the skyline in question, the car was always very well maintained throughout its life and it owes me a lot of money that i will never see again, nor will I see any money or gain an rewards in the money I am spending now fixing it. I am just doing it because I hate to see the car in an undrivable state. On top of this, none of this was meant to happen!

The car drove beautifully before all this  happened, and I was agreed to sell it to a friend of mine who was overseas and knew the car well and needed a car when he got back. I already got myself an economical run around ages ago.

The car developed a small water leaks somewhere at the back of the engine just before I delivered to him on a test drive as luck would have it. instead of leaving ti to him to dealt with, i decided to be a good person so I took the car to the mechanic who charged $250 for the labour to change the hose. I was spewing at on the day. I picked up the car and on the way to deliver the car to my friends place it started smoking oil and the turbo was blown. I had never abused the car I was shocked.

I suspected the mechanic maybe ran the car without the coolant hose connected to the turbo and cooked it etc or flogged it but I dont know.

I left the car stranded at my friends place. He came back, the car was not ready, he got himself another car, and I'm  fixing a car which I do not want and he does not want,  spending money which I will never see again.  All because I do not want to sell a car with "a broken engine" and get offered peanuts for it because the actually engine makes 180psi+ compression all 6 cylinders and is in perfect health otherwise mechanically.

I really hope you guy understand this. Some people cannot put themselves in other peoples shoes and just think everybody can do what they can.  I just want the car drivable and working ok now, I dont really care if the silicone intake hose collapses a little if it saves me $200. What would happen if it does, Im sure its not catastophic and I'm sure I can fit a few metal rings inside to help keep it open. Im not preparing a car for racing in le mans.

Edited October 5, 2017 by sonicz

[sonicz]

9 hours ago, inmaniac said:

Dude. You're doing EXACTLY what I did with my old RB25 R32.

I'm going to tell you what I had to do, exactly, to get it going. No, this isn't a performance guide, but this is what I did to get running. You are using the exact same shitty ebay turbo I did.

1. You need a silicone 90deg to replace the stock J-pipe. (Done)

2. You need to modify the oil drain. (Done?)

3. I replaced the oil drain gasket, the one that came with the kit didn't fit properly.

4. I had to modify the coolant return by cutting the metal and inserting a piece of hose and then securing it.

5. I had to cut and weld my front pipe as it shifted position with the new turbo. (Looks like you're fine?)

6. What is currently being discussed: You need a 3in > 2in reducer and a 2in pipe so you can clamp to your stock intake. This is not the best method but I ran my car like this for 2 years without issue on 12psi boost. A metal intake is still best.

As above, boost is controller can be connected via the blue hose.

You've overreacting imho to what is an easy fix for where you're at. I just hope you've put in all the washers we've previously discussed.

 

1. Yup done! Thankfully that worked out (but it wasn't easy finding it)

2. Did not modify anything as I did not know anything about having to modify anything. As I said I figured its exactly the same fit as the stock turbo. It wasn't, and it needed a longer hose. Thats why i was looking for a new oil drain hose..

I cut the new 1m hose it to size and I spent 4 HOURS trying to squirm the damn hose on. Its rock solid, like trying screw a m12 bolt into an m10 hole by hand.

Here is the damned result.

There is a huge kink in the hose. A lot more than the pic depicts as the kink is from the other side.  No i cannot take the hose of again let alone the turbo. The hose is literally stuck in place now. What i need to know is how badly the kink will affect the reduced oil flow? I plan to to get it to a mechanic to get it up on a hoist to put to the hose on properly should be easy once under the car. Will it starve anything of oil if the flow is severely restricted? Only for slow driving to the nearest mechanic.

3. Mine fit properly, but I did have to take the turbo bolt of next the oil drain pipe, which i plan to grind down the head of the bolt down a size and refit it.

4. Did not have to do this? But it did need some bending.

5. What front pipe? you mean the turbo oil drain pipe? If so see answer 3 and 2

6. I could do this, but then wont it starve the turbo of air or flutter them  having a 2 inchpipe so close to the intake blades blowing air only over small portion of them? Seriously thinking of getting one of these which has a 3 inch turbo inlet opening and I dont need to do any modifications!??

 

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by sonicz

[GTSBoy]

The poor man pays twice.  Do things right the first time and save the regrets.

[sonicz]

1 minute ago, GTSBoy said:

The poor man pays twice.  Do things right the first time and save the regrets.

Why exactly though? You need to elaborate. What happens if I

1.Use the stock air inlet pipe, and use a 3inch to 2 inch reducer. Inmaniac said he did this for 2 years.

2. Buy one of the silicone ebay hoses, and it collapses sometimes?

 

My bigger regret is paying more  money that needed.

Edited October 5, 2017 by sonicz

[sonicz]

On 10/4/2017 at 2:38 AM, vxsr33 said:

What's your goal with the ebay turbo? Do you just want a replacement for the stock one or do you want more power aswell? If the latter then you'll find you will end up spending a fair bit on supporting mods at which point you may as well ditch the ebay turbo and get a hypergear hiflow or something. If you were happy with the stock turbo then it would be easier just to wait for one in good condition to come up for sale, i think i have even seen a few on the forum lately for around $150. I sold my stock turbo in great condition with only a small amount of shaft play for $140 (i regret it).

My goal was just to get the car running again for as cheap as possible.

yea I see it would have been cheaper to get a stock one now, even for $300. I could not find one for $150 lol

I realy did try get a stock one . I went across all Sydney and both I saw were flogged both sellers wasted my time, massive shaft play in and out. I had someone try sell me one here on sau for $350 which was too much for me.

[GTSBoy]

1 hour ago, sonicz said:

Why exactly though? You need to elaborate. What happens if I

1.Use the stock air inlet pipe, and use a 3inch to 2 inch reducer. Inmaniac said he did this for 2 years.

2. Buy one of the silicone ebay hoses, and it collapses sometimes?

Well, yes.  I built a steel intake for my car 15 years ago and.....it's still good.  Haven't spent any more money on that since the initial spend.  Some other guys have f**ked about with jamming bits of pipe inside the factory elbow, then bought a silicone one, then changed their turbo 6 times for random eBay rubbish, then eventually, finally, they did it the right way and realised what they should have done the first time.  We will all tell you the same "lesson".

If you worry about the (nearly non-existent) problem that having a 2" metal pipe feeding your 3" turbo inlet and don't worry about how bad it is when a soft intake pipe sucks shut (think - high vacuum in front of the compressor - what does it do for shaft movement?) then you're doing one thing wrong.  If you think that you're saving money by doing it the cheap way now, then you're doing that wrong too.  Because a little down the track you're going to be pissed off when it drives as slow and as painful as buggery because the compressor is starving for air, and the cheap China spec turbo's thrust bearings have given up from being ground into the end of the CHRA, and you will spend all the money again.  All of which could be avoided.

[89CAL]

Why didnt you just get your turbo highflowed? Bolts back in the same + more durable. I know you were trying to do it cheap but im guessing now you are seeing why buying things off Ebay and trying to make them work isnt the best idea

[Yeedogga]

Honestly mate,
You are better off buying this OP6 turbo (see pic below) and selling all the aftermarket stuff you bought.

The OP6 (RB25NEO) turbo should bolt straight up and you can use all the OEM shit.

Will cost you much less in the long run and will work as designed by Nissan, not dodge backyard customs

[hy_rpm]

Ill sell you my op6 turbo in immaculate cond and from syd west too
$250

[sonicz]

5 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

If you worry about the (nearly non-existent) problem that having a 2" metal pipe feeding your 3" turbo inlet and don't worry about how bad it is when a soft intake pipe sucks shut (think - high vacuum in front of the compressor - what does it do for shaft movement?) then you're doing one thing wrong.  If you think that you're saving money by doing it the cheap way now, then you're doing that wrong too.  Because a little down the track you're going to be pissed off when it drives as slow and as painful as buggery because the compressor is starving for air, and the cheap China spec turbo's thrust bearings have given up from being ground into the end of the CHRA, and you will spend all the money again.  All of which could be avoided.

The pipe sucking shut is not at all a worry of mine because I know how to work at solving it if it comes up. I'm not even entirely convinced the stock pipe will suck shut. I will stick a camera in there and record it while I drive and post it on here. If I go soft silicone hose I believe that can easily suck shut, but I can stick a few metal rings in there and/or clamps on the outside and glue them to the hose to keep it from collapsing. Seriously This is a problem i am confident I can easily solve.

1. What I am worried about is the oil drain hose being kinked. Is that a crucial problem? How fast is the flow through there? I know its the oil return and thus supply oil for the turbo is there but I mean if 80% of the hose is blocked by a kink how will it affect the car for a short while non boosting to a mechanic?

2.How will using the stock 2 inch inake pipe with a silicone 2 inch to 3 inch adapter affect turbo performance? I find it odd that you say its ok that a 2 inch metal pipe is sitting mere cm away from rotating blades designed to have a 3inch hose attached to them.

This should work fine right?

But it will look something like this to the turbo as far as the pipe that supplies the air is concerned. Is that ok blowing the air only partially accros the opening so close to the blades?

 

5 hours ago, 89CAL said:

Why didnt you just get your turbo highflowed? Bolts back in the same + more durable. I know you were trying to do it cheap but im guessing now you are seeing why buying things off Ebay and trying to make them work isnt the best idea

Was looking to keep cost low.  Figured ebay turbo would set me back 270 and that's it.

4 hours ago, hy_rpm said:

Ill sell you my op6 turbo in immaculate cond and from syd west too
$250

A bit late for that but I may come have a look and buy it just to keep it as an option in case this doesn't work out. pmed.

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by sonicz

[sonicz]

On 10/4/2017 at 6:59 AM, GeeDog said:

 

The blue hose on the actuator is the on the nipple you are looking for - you just need to route it from the boost source (the turbo housing or the original source nipple, depending on what you do with the intake pipe) through your boost controller and back on to the actuator.

 

Re the ebay silicone intake pipe - I'm not convinced this won't also suck shut. I've got an alloy one that came from ebay, but I don't think they are available anymore. I'd contact Scotty's Customs - he makes a very nice metal replacement.

 

On 10/4/2017 at 11:37 AM, GTSBoy said:

 

Per all the above.  The boost source for boost control is off the turbo outlet.  The place where boost control happens is at the actuator.  Hence the simplest way to make that happen is to connect one to the other.  The boost signal then pushes the actuator to open the wastegate.  But it offers no adjustability.  So the way to obtain that is to take the signal from the source, bleed some of it off and pass the reduced signal to the actuator.  Presto, now the actuator sees a lower boost than the engine sees and you can happily run higher boost than the actuator is sprung for.  But, and this is a very important but, you cannot decrease boost below what the wastegate actuator is sprung for.  If you have a 14 psi spring in there now, then 14 is the minimum.  Hence all my cautions about not tuning etc etc in earlier posts.

And to go back to the topic of the inlet elbow, you should never use soft silicone bends there.  Call Scotty, buy whatever he makes.  It doesn't matter what it costs, it is the only reasonable way for you to achieve your goal (of getting it all fitted together and running).

So lets just see if I got this right...

The way the Turbo is set up now from the factory, connected to itself, it is running the lowest possible boost it can. I.e the wastegate flap will open as quickly and as much as it can whenever the actuator spring reaches its preset boost (Can anyone have a guess at what PSI that will work out to be btw?) . This is because it is getting a perfect reference boost reading direct from the turbo with no bleed of happening between the reference boost and the actuator (duh its connected to itself)

If I want to continue using my boost controller so I can go above that lowest possible psi,  I will need to take of the current blue hose off the ebay turbo actuator nipple (wtf kind of clamps are those? ) and block off the loose end of the blue hose somehow with a bolt etc so there is no leak. Then hook up the vacuum like coming from boost controller that was going to the stock turbo Actuator, to the actuator nipple of the new turbo that I just took the hose of. That will give me back my current boost control layout.

The stock turbo does not have a place where a line vacuum connects to itself, therefore I assume my boost controller and the stock turbo actuator is getting its reference boost from another location beside the turbo, I assume somewhere upstream of the turbo boost, and I guess I can just continue using this depending on what i do with my piping ofcourse.

 

I THINK I got that all down perfect?

 

What I dont understand is how adjusting that nut on the actuator rod does. I'm sure it adjust the spring tension and affects how easily the flap opens, but doesn't that itself affect boost, and anything to be gained by adjusting it? Or totally leave it alone?

Edited October 5, 2017 by sonicz

[hy_rpm]

Trust if you going to stay standard power and not boost past 12psi the standard turbo is the best option as its ball bearing
Most responsive and more reliable than that ebay turbo
Its going to be laggy and unreliable

Just make sure you remove the stock oil line and banjo bolts if you use the ebay turbo as its bush bearing and will blow up the turbo as it restricts oil flow
Other way around if you decide to go back to a stock turbo

[sonicz]

6 hours ago, hy_rpm said:

Trust if you going to stay standard power and not boost past 12psi the standard turbo is the best option as its ball bearing
Most responsive and more reliable than that ebay turbo
Its going to be laggy and unreliable

Just make sure you remove the stock oil line and banjo bolts if you use the ebay turbo as its bush bearing and will blow up the turbo as it restricts oil flow
Other way around if you decide to go back to a stock turbo

What do you mean remove the stock oil line and banjo bolts? Thats how i hooked up the turbo!

I was actually going to ask about the restrictor. The ebay turbo came with a oil flow restrictor installed deep inside the oil line socket. It looked like this

But had a flat head obviously to take it in and out. I LEFT it it. I was thinking of taking it out but didn't. Why would it come with one if it didn't need it?

So you are saying for ebay turbo REMOVE the oil restrict or thats in the turbo? The banjo fittings is all I have so what do you mean remove them? Do you mean get like rubber hoses for the water and oil lines?

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by sonicz

[Yeedogga]

Is the new POS turbo a ball bearing or journal bearing unit?

 

If it's a journal bearing it will need plenty of oil flow to keep the bearing suspended, so probably don't need the restrictor.

 

If its a BB turbo then leave restrictor in.

 

Unless the oil seals are made of cheese so the manufacturers supplied a restrictor to prevent them from leaking.

[sonicz]

"

HP:	Capable of Boosting Horse Power up to 430HP
Cooling Type:	Water + Oil
Internal Wastegate Actuator Setting	Up to 21.75psi
Exhaust Inlet (Turbo Manifold) Flange:	4 bolts Flange
Exhaust Outlet (Downpipe) Flange:	6 bolts Flange
Oil Inlet	M12*1.25  side hole: M8*38.1
Oil Return	18.5 / side hoe:M8*1.2  Center-center: 50.9
Water Hole	M18*1.5
Compressor
Inducer Diamter	52.7mm
Exducer Diamter	76.2mm
A/R	0.5
Turbine
Inducer Diamter	65.2mm
Exducer Diamter	48.2mm
A/R	0.63
Additional Details:
Bearing:	Wet Float
Warranty:	1 Year
Internal Wastegate:	Yes
Accessories:	You will get exactly as shown in the picture above

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/for-Nissan-Skyline-R32-R33-R34-RB25-RB20-2-0-2-5-S2-bolt-on-Turbo-Turbocharger-M/200745050295?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D46669%26meid%3D6fcf4d391b694f608b5ad5b77f619b8c%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D282516710656&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A2efa8931-aa3c-11e7-962a-74dbd1807af9%7Cparentrq%3Aef7713c115e0a8619d032275fffbb4fa%7Ciid%3A1#rwid

[sonicz]

I was just thinking, instead of having the stock oil return metal pipe hanging of the new turbo and causing a kink, can I just use a fitting like this to the bottom of the turbo and just run the oil return like straight to the engine block no metal hose?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Turbo-Oil-Pan-Return-Drain-Plug-Adapter-Bung-Fitting-Bolt-on-5-8-Hose-No-Weld/161696355972?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D487df726faba422c949f51dab01f837a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D172343279177&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Whats the correct size? 18.5 side hoe?

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by sonicz

[inmaniac]

You're complicating this bro... Do you want it done or do you want it done right?

You want it done... So, from what I can see, the kink isn't too big of a drama. I would replace if possible. Secondly, no, the reducer on the intake won't noticeably harm your performance at wastegate boost pressure. As I replied above, get a reducer and a pipe so you can connect.

IIRC wastegate pressure for that turbo was between 10-12 PSI.

[inmaniac]

10 hours ago, sonicz said:

If I want to continue using my boost controller so I can go above that lowest possible psi,  I will need to take of the current blue hose off the ebay turbo actuator nipple (wtf kind of clamps are those? ) and block off the loose end of the blue hose somehow with a bolt etc so there is no leak. Then hook up the vacuum like coming from boost controller that was going to the stock turbo Actuator, to the actuator nipple of the new turbo that I just took the hose of. That will give me back my current boost control layout.

The stock turbo does not have a place where a line vacuum connects to itself, therefore I assume my boost controller and the stock turbo actuator is getting its reference boost from another location beside the turbo, I assume somewhere upstream of the turbo boost, and I guess I can just continue using this depending on what i do with my piping ofcourse.

 

I THINK I got that all down perfect?

 

What I dont understand is how adjusting that nut on the actuator rod does. I'm sure it adjust the spring tension and affects how easily the flap opens, but doesn't that itself affect boost, and anything to be gained by adjusting it? Or totally leave it alone?

The nut is pre-load. There should be a little bit of pre-load on the wastegate, usually 3-6 turns.

And dude, the boost controller just goes inline with that blue hose. In essence, you could cut that blue hose in half, run the hose voming form the compressor as your source, and the other is the signal to wastegate.

Where are you located? DM me. If you're in trouble next week I'll swing by and answer all these questions in 2mins.

[hy_rpm]

You bought the line kit seperate from the turbo or using the factory lines?
I cant see a new ball bearing turbo going for $280 it will definatly be bush/journal bearing