R34 Rear end Floating/steering at high speed

[GTSBoy]

Paint them black.  it is illegal to modify a steering system without engineering approval.  Guess what HICAS is.

[GeeDog]

11 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

Paint them black.  it is illegal to modify a steering system without engineering approval.  Guess what HICAS is.

Not sure if that was directed at me. If it was ever driven on the road, I think the mods to the rear steering would be the least of my worries when pulled over - they'd probably be more interested in the slicks, roll cage, brakes, engine, exhaust, seats, seat belts ... the list goes on.

[GTSBoy]

Was aimed at you.  And in that case......fair enough.

[hardsteppa]

why would one not try to minimize the list of their potential worries though..?

[hardsteppa]

oh i see lol...yeah the purple does look a bit more sex.

[GeeDog]

1 hour ago, hardsteppa said:

why would one not try to minimize the list of their potential worries though..?

It's a track car - hasn't been on the road for years. The purple will be covered in crap before too long anyway.

[R31/4 GTT/S]

So if I was to install a hicas eliminator I would most than likely solve my problem??

Where can I get a good kit at an reasonable prices?

[GTSBoy]

21 minutes ago, R31/4 GTT/S said:

So if I was to install a hicas eliminator I would most than likely solve my problem??

ONLY if it's the HICAS joints that are killing you.  It could also be just about everything else down there.  At least find out what's wrong before trying to source the fix.

As to where to buy.....have you googled "HICAS eliminator kit"?  The usual suspects come up immediately.

[R31/4 GTT/S]

It's seem to be when I hit a bump on the left hand side more the rear just steers out.
Can any1 make anything from the pics I've taken?
I'm going to jack the car up tomorrow and have a better look.

So how are the hicas joints changed? Are they a ball joint or can they be changed with a press. I have access to one.

Sorry guys I'm just a newbie when it comes to irs and hicas.

Cheers

[vxsr33]

Can't really tell from the pics. You're gonna have to jack up the rear (use jackstands) and check the rear wheels and suspension for play.

Google "diy hicas delete" and the first link should be a good how-to from trak-life.com (credit to DosePipe). It's a fairly easy job.

[GeeDog]

5 hours ago, R31/4 GTT/S said:

So how are the hicas joints changed? Are they a ball joint or can they be changed with a press. I have access to one.

Removing the old ball joints is the hardest part - the rest is easy. You can use a press, but you'll have to remove the wheel hubs. I did it on the car, using a ball joint remover that I had in my toolbox. It wasn't the best tool for the job - there are much better removers available - but it worked. The whole job took around 3 hours, most of which was removing the bj's.

[mikel]

On 11/8/2017 at 9:02 AM, GeeDog said:

Jack up the rear end, so the wheels are off the ground. Hold one rear wheel at the 3 & 9 o'clock positions, and try and move it. If there is free play (ie you can make the wheel "steer"), get someone to move the wheel while you look & feel for where the play is. It is likely in the outer ball joints (where the Hicas tie-rods / steering arms join the wheel hub), but may also be in the inner tie-rod end - the joint inside the rubber boot where the tie-rods come out of the Hicas rack. 

I've just fixed this on my R33 by replacing the Hicas lock bar & tie-rods / ball joints with a Hicas eliminator kit. You have the Hicas rack rather than the lock bar, but the same tie-rods & ball joints.

 

Old Hicas lock bar with tie-rods

 

The remains of the old ball joints

Eliminator kit installed

Serious question -  why did you swap out the lock bar instead of replacing the ball joints and keeping the old lock bar?

It sounds like the OP needs to address more than just an install of a HICAS lock bar if the ball joints are already worn which would allow the rear wheels to flop around even with a lock bar...

....slightly off topic - if a lock bar is installed while the HICAS ball joints are still in good condition, would it be correct that the HICAS ball joints do so little work after the lock bar is installed (particularly in relation to all the other suspension components) that they're unlikely to wear out? or would they wear out at the same rate as without a lock bar?

On 11/1/2017 at 2:16 AM, R31/4 GTT/S said:

Im assuming this caused the pre mature wear on my wheel bearing which was completely destroyed when I pulled the hub apart. 

 

Hi Ash,

In a different thread it was highlighted to me how good the factory wheel bearings are, so to flog the bearings on one wheel indicates a problem that needs addressing - it could be just the HICAS ball joints, or something else as others have already mentioned in this thread.

Consider getting a suspension specialist to check over your rear end - many will quote for free, then you can post up what they recommend.

Wear and small alignment issues can make a big difference.

After I installed my  HICAS lock bar and lifted the car on the coilovers, I got a local suspension place to do a front and rear wheel alignment, requesting a couple of mm of "Toe In" on the rear, as per recommendations on this forum (very good drivers often use 0mm "Toe In" on the rear - bumblies like me are best off with a few mm of rear "Toe In").

On my next track day, the car didn't feel quite right, and I even managed to spin a couple of times in the same spot after coming through a low spot on the track with some water.

Very soon after I installed @Sydneykid's suspension package, and had a different suspension shop do the alignment.

When I picked the car up, the suspension guy mentioned that when the car came in the rear had a few mm of "Toe Out" on the rear, that he'd now adjusted to "Toe In". I thought this may have been me not tightening the connections properly on the HICAS lockbar, and he pointed out that if they had loosened off, that would increase "Toe In", not "Toe Out" - the first suspension place had adjusted the "rear toe" in the wrong direction! - "Toe Out" instead of "Toe In".

As per my previous post, I would recommend deleting the HICAS with a lock bar, but get the rest of the rear suspension checked at the same time, and replace parts that are worn, including worn bushes.

Interestingly IME, Nolathane bushes appear to have a relatively short life - they're good for performance, and required over OEM rubber bushes if "offset" bushes are desired to improve angles at the front end - but they seem to wear out faster.

Fine for me - my car doesn't do many miles - and I'm happy to swap Nolathane with Nolathane when bushes wear to keep the handling taught - others I know (not Skyline owners) have gone back to OEM rubber bushes over Nolathane - particularly where offset bushes aren't needed (I'm not aware of rubber bushes being available in different offsets like Nolathane bushes are).

Your concern is the rear end - no offset bushes are required there - your call on Nolathane or rubber replacement bushes.

cheers

Mike

Edited November 12, 2017 by mikel

[thebe]

The hicas joint bushes are a real pain in the ass to get out. Without the right tools... I spent hours trying to hack and smash them out. Bought a universal g-press from eBay (which fit the hub perfectly btw!) but even with a ~meter lever the bushes wouldnt come out. Said screw it and took my bolt gun and gave it the beats. Worked like a charm maybe 1 hour later the car was back on its wheels. Definately recommend buying such a tool if you dont have one.

Remember to cut the circlip with a grinder before you use th press.

[GeeDog]

4 hours ago, mikel said:

Serious question -  why did you swap out the lock bar instead of replacing the ball joints and keeping the old lock bar

Because not only were the ball joints shagged, so too were the inner joints - it was easier & cheaper to replace the lot with an eliminator (especially after I sell the lock bar). 

 

2 hours ago, thebe said:

Remember to cut the circlip with a grinder before you use th press.

Just a correction for anyone reading this in the future - the circlip doesn't need to be cut off, as it's on the shock absorber side (ie towards the front of the car, which is where you are pushing the ball joint). The flange of the ball joint (on the side facing the rear of the car) has to be cut off.

[GeeDog]

4 hours ago, mikel said:

slightly off topic - if a lock bar is installed while the HICAS ball joints are still in good condition, would it be correct that the HICAS ball joints do so little work after the lock bar is installed (particularly in relation to all the other suspension components) that they're unlikely to wear out? or would they wear out at the same rate as without a lock bar?

My ball joints were in good condition when I installed the lock bar, but are now stuffed. No idea if the wear rate was the same.

[thebe]

Just a correction for anyone reading this in the future - the circlip doesn't need to be cut off, as it's on the shock absorber side (ie towards the front of the car, which is where you are pushing the ball joint). The flange of the ball joint (on the side facing the rear of the car) has to be cut off.

Yes! Good catch[emoji106]