Garrett G Series

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I personally would go G35 turbine side as well  

Another option is to go to a Precision 6266 Gen 2, just run an oil filter, oil pressure relief valve and you should be pretty good.

[Butters]

g35 1050 - vband, vcam and .86 rear  if this helps you 

 

[Borci88]

1 hour ago, Butters said:

g35 1050 - vband, vcam and .86 rear  if this helps you 

 

It does indeed, however it only helps by muddying the waters some more 😛 because that is a very impressive result with not too much lag on what is a stock 26 helped with VCAM and E85.. I still think everythings pointing to a G35-900 however, as I'd like it to come on full boost closer to 4000... however maybe I'm being optimistic.

[GTSBoy]

Just do it.

[Borci88]

4 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

Just do it.

👀 

 

Sinco has a 5 week backlog and I still want a functioning car throughout summer rather than have it sit there in pieces so don't hold your breath! But I'll start putting money down on parts probably this week..

[r32-25t]

If response and low down torque is important I really recommend going the twin scroll option, atp in America do a 1.06 t4 ts housing for the g35s 

[Full-Race Geoff]

On 10/18/2022 at 12:03 PM, Borci88 said:

I'm aiming for 500+rwkw without going 35psi, while hopefully still, being more responsive than my -5s.

Racepace RB28 bottom end
RB25 NEO Non-Turbo head with VCT
RB25 Neo Turbo STOCK Intake camshaft / HKS 260 degree Exhaust camshaft (mismatch I know)
3" HKS Exhaust with front pipes and decat
E85 
Haltech Elite 2500
Approximately 435rwkw @ 23psi

I've been told that a GTX3582RS GEN 2 would be the go-er, which seems like is it roughly equal to a G35-900 anyway.. and even then, due to the small head, would I be better off with a .83 dual V-Band rear housing? Or go larger and get the 1.01 dual v-band rear housing? Pulsar now also sell a .85 twin scroll T4 as well. 

I assume a G30 isn't going to cut the mustard for 500+kw though?

For those who haven't seen, Racepace recently ran up a G35-900 with SIMILAR setup to mine and made 565rwkw on 26psi

what is your max engine RPM?  Are you using STOCK valvetrain?  this is the biggest factor you didn't mention.  Also important to consider if you're at sea level or elevation? 

Genuine G35-900 sounds like the go here. Or if you're looking for bang-for-the-buck Genuine Garrett GTX3582R Gen2  is a great performer with the twinscroll housing but gets very tight and hard to plumb on an RB.  FYI there is no GTX3582RS and the GTX3584RS is not a great turbo.  

I never recommend anything pulsar they are to turbos what ROTA is to wheels.

 

On 10/18/2022 at 7:11 PM, r32-25t said:

I’d use the g35 because the rb engines love the bigger rear wheels. Personally I’d use a 1.0x twin scroll rear housing, the different in response by using the twin scroll rear really makes them the only choice 

+1

On 10/18/2022 at 6:31 PM, GTSBoy said:

If response is important, then you will likely prefer the twin scroll option over the V band options, although I** worry that the TS 0.85 rear will limit the 500kW target.

+2

On 10/18/2022 at 7:32 PM, Borci88 said:

My fear is that a I'll spend all this money converting to single turbo, and a G30-900 won't even be able to crack 500kw.  Both the G30 and G35 come in a .85 Twin Scroll rear housing if I bought a Pulsar version which is good, however if I was to go any bigger AR then I would be sacrificing twin scroll to go to V-Band. 

I think you and GTSBoy are on the same page and I have been leaning towards the G35 all along (only with one friend of mine screaming in my ear to go G30). I'll need to go back through this thread to find some more results but I seem to remember G35-900s making very good power (500+kW) out of smaller rear housings, something which the older turbos weren't as capable of..

I also see that @Full-Race Geoff is fond of the .6x rear housings and smaller rear housings throughout the entire G series range

to be clear we like smaller *mono scroll* turbine housings for the G series.  When it comes to twinscroll you want to be around 1.0 a/r - anything smaller will usually choke regardless of the turbine wheel

Your fear is totally warranted if going with Pulsar... all bets are off.  its a counterfeit knockoff and I dont know why anyone would take it seriously?  If cost is the issue go with an airwerks SXE or a GTX3582R Gen2.  

Not sure if talking Garrett G30 or "pulsar g30" but your friend recommending the g30 might not realize there is no free lunch... the smaller turbine does not necessarily mean earlier spool in a 'mismatch' scenario with twinscroll housing.  G30-770 or G35-900 is my preference 

On 10/18/2022 at 8:56 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

I personally would go G35 turbine side as well  

Another option is to go to a Precision 6266 Gen 2, just run an oil filter, oil pressure relief valve and you should be pretty good.

The 6266 is pretty outdated at this point in time..  We still sell heaps of them but I dont know why people keep buying 

On 10/19/2022 at 3:11 AM, Borci88 said:

everythings pointing to a G35-900 however, as I'd like it to come on full boost closer to 4000... however maybe I'm being optimistic.

not a 2.8L RB engine, but a g30-770 vs g35-900 single-scroll comparison on 2JZ from my canadian buddies at speed academy: 

 

On 10/19/2022 at 5:11 AM, r32-25t said:

If response and low down torque is important I really recommend going the twin scroll option, atp in America do a 1.06 t4 ts housing for the g35s 

agreed- great turbo just be aware its tough to plumb the oil drain and water fittings on that turbine casting due to the narrow GTX35 chra.  

Edited October 20, 2022 by Full-Race Geoff

[Butters]

8 hours ago, Full-Race Geoff said:

Your fear is totally warranted if going with Pulsar... all bets are off.  its a counterfeit knockoff and I dont know why anyone would take it seriously? 

So far seeing the pulsar make the same numbers as genuine and some big ones and big boost at that.

They seem to be lasting too, yet to see a failure in some abused setups. 

 Given they are 35% of the price it does make me feel a bit foolish paying so much.  

Happy to be educated otherwise , my experience is limited but with the above I am seriously considering buying one for my bigger HP setup. 

 

 

[Borci88]

33 minutes ago, Butters said:

So far seeing the pulsar make the same numbers as genuine and some big ones and big boost at that.

They seem to be lasting too, yet to see a failure in some abused setups. 

 Given they are 35% of the price it does make me feel a bit foolish paying so much.  

Happy to be educated otherwise , my experience is limited but with the above I am seriously considering buying one for my bigger HP setup. 

 

 

I was buying some fittings the other day at a local workshop and we got to talking about Garrett + Pulsar and he said he had a mate of his that bought a Pulsar turbo that made about 70% of what it should have made, so he switched it to the equivalent Garrett and it made the power stated on the box.

That's the ONE experience I know of that was negative, so far I have gotten the impression that they receive overwhelmingly positive feedback. I think for the price they are still very impressive, and I'm willing to take a gamble, as I'm doing 95% of the install/work myself, so if the turbo is shit oh well.. can always replace part down the track.

 

Going back a little bit how people mentioned a G35-900 and then buy a twin scroll housing from ATP in the states, unless I read the prices wrong, for a G35-900 without turbine housing, and then add a nice new twin scroll 1.06 turbine housing, I wouldn't expect to see any change from $5,100 AUD shipped to my door. For that money, may as well just go the tried and true method of an EFR. 

 

Anyway we'll see, Sinco manifold is 5+ weeks off by the time it's manufactured, and I think I'll hold off until after summer to pull the turbo side off. I've owned this car 7+ years and I think I've spent about 2 of those summers with a working car... 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

On 19/10/2022 at 11:11 PM, r32-25t said:

If response and low down torque is important I really recommend going the twin scroll option, atp in America do a 1.06 t4 ts housing for the g35s 

Or Tao from Hypergear can make one fit for you too. He has access to some pretty nice rear turbine housings these days.

[33GTRV]

30 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Or Tao from Hypergear can make one fit for you too. He has access to some pretty nice rear turbine housings these days.

Just had Tao modify a GTW3884r 67mm with a 1050 front wheel. The difference is night and day. Bum dyno has it coming on about 900rpm earlier with no tune change, only a reduction in bewst. Can definetly recommend him for anything turbo. Turbo currently has a 1.00 a/r and performs beyond expectations. It was a pretty potent setup before, but it is definately the goods for a very streetable 700-850whp. Car goes back on the dyno in a few weeks when i finally get some transfer case plates into the country and can finish the mod.

[Rand0b]

On 10/18/2022 at 3:03 PM, Borci88 said:

Hey all, after some advice in regards to what turbo I should be aiming for to replace my aging -5s. If possible, I'm aiming for 500+rwkw without going 35psi, while hopefully still, being more responsive than my -5s. I haven't got a big flowing head and cams so I imagine I will be pushing the single turbo quite hard, however if possible I'd like to remain around the 25psi mark to meet my goals. Tell me I'm dreaming if I am..

 

My current setup is as follows:

 

Racepace RB28 bottom end

RB25 NEO Non-Turbo head with VCT

RB25 Neo Turbo STOCK Intake camshaft / HKS 260 degree Exhaust camshaft (mismatch I know)

No porting other than removing the humps in the exhaust ports, however the intake and exhaust ports are far smaller than turbo heads

-5 Turbos with dumps 

3" HKS Exhaust with front pipes and decat

E85 

Haltech Elite 2500

Approximately 435rwkw @ 23psi

I believe it comes on boost at around 4500rpm, unfortunately I don't have a dyno graph with RPM overlay and PSI.

 

As you can see, the head and camshafts are going to be the limiting factor and I'm not looking to change them at this stage. 

 

I've been told that a GTX3582RS GEN 2 would be the go-er, which seems like is it roughly equal to a G35-900 anyway.. and even then, due to the small head, would I be better off with a .83 dual V-Band rear housing? Or go larger and get the 1.01 dual v-band rear housing? Pulsar now also sell a .85 twin scroll T4 as well. 

 

To sum it all up, I THINK A G30-900 or G35-900 is probably the right turbo for my goals. I was thinking of using the SINCO T4 Twin Scroll mentioned by @Dose Pipe Sutututu as that's barely any more money than a 6booby and seems much better anyway. I assume a G30 isn't going to cut the mustard for 500+kw though?

For those who haven't seen, Racepace recently ran up a G35-900 with SIMILAR setup to mine and made 565rwkw on 26psi, I just don't know how laggy it is, although Racepace aren't known for building laggy cars usually. Might need to pop in and see what they say about it. (Pic attached is Racepace build not my car)

https://fb.watch/geIcPyDzBs/

 

Keen to hear everyone's opinions on it as it's quite a rare combo of top and bottom end.

 

I think it would more depend on use case for the car

while this is a rb25 bottom it makes 700 on a g30-770 so most likely maxed out.

This would be a great choice for drift to light up the tires and quick torque delivery.

I think a g35-900 would be better suited for everything else as it would probably have a smoother power delivery 

[Butters]

Need to give that 700 hp a bit of a dyno haircut as its on standard smoothing. Still very impressive even if it is 650's on an SAE CF.    

[Lithium]

Sorry taken me some time to respond, been super busy lately - but public holiday today so have a moment to yarn about turbos.

So this will be on Racepace dyno, which is a roller dyno?   

Assuming the things which have been assumed so far, these are my suggestions:

1) If you're in a rush and trying to spend as little as possible, I've seen 500+kw result results on Oz based Mainline hub dynos for G30 900s but that's squeezing the lemon pretty hard, feels like the G35 900 copy (PSR 6262G) would have to be the go if you're going the Pulsar direction.   I'd go the .83a/r hotside option, really not sure if or how much the 25DE Neo head will be a problem... pound for pound your results so far suggest that it'll be up for 500kw with that G-series turbine/compressor combo will do with more boost going through them but really depends on what magical fluid dynamic stuff which may be beyond me might happen when you start trying to push more gas through the smaller ports.   I wouldn't bother with the divided housing change as that involves a bunch of reworking, and if you're trying to save time and not spend money to "do it right" then it's not worth investing in all new manifolds and fabrication - if you're going down that path then you should be doing :

2) The "right way" would be a 1.05a/r T4 divided EFR8474.   It'd be glorious for a setup like this IF the head didn't become a limitation.  

Edited October 23, 2022 by Lithium

[Borci88]

27 minutes ago, Lithium said:

Sorry taken me some time to respond, been super busy lately - but public holiday today so have a moment to yarn about turbos.

So this will be on Racepace dyno, which is a roller dyno?   

Assuming the things which have been assumed so far, these are my suggestions:

1) If you're in a rush and trying to spend as little as possible, I've seen 500+kw result results on Oz based Mainline hub dynos for G30 900s but that's squeezing the lemon pretty hard, feels like the G35 900 copy (PSR 6262G) would have to be the go if you're going the Pulsar direction.   I'd go the .83a/r hotside option, really not sure if or how much the 25DE Neo head will be a problem... pound for pound your results so far suggest that it'll be up for 500kw with that G-series turbine/compressor combo will do with more boost going through them but really depends on what magical fluid dynamic stuff which may be beyond me might happen when you start trying to push more gas through the smaller ports.   I wouldn't bother with the divided housing change as that involves a bunch of reworking, and if you're trying to save time and not spend money to "do it right" then it's not worth investing in all new manifolds and fabrication - if you're going down that path then you should be doing :

2) The "right way" would be a 1.05a/r T4 divided EFR8474.   It'd be glorious for a setup like this IF the head didn't become a limitation.  

All good mate appreciate your time.

 

I ended up ordering a 6262G in a .85 Twin Scroll T4 housing. That should arrive later this week or the next, but in the interim I came across a Borgwarner EFR 9174 internally gated (I believe .95 AR or thereabouts) going cheap so I snatched that up as well.

 

I'll continue weighing up the pros and cons over the next week but I think even IF the EFR was lazier than the Pulsar, I think the EFR is the much safer bet reliability wise, however I can't picture it being much lazier..

[Lithium]

On 24/10/2022 at 11:04 AM, Borci88 said:

All good mate appreciate your time.

 

I ended up ordering a 6262G in a .85 Twin Scroll T4 housing. That should arrive later this week or the next, but in the interim I came across a Borgwarner EFR 9174 internally gated (I believe .95 AR or thereabouts) going cheap so I snatched that up as well.

 

I'll continue weighing up the pros and cons over the next week but I think even IF the EFR was lazier than the Pulsar, I think the EFR is the much safer bet reliability wise, however I can't picture it being much lazier..

Nice, actually really interested to see how the .85 divided setup goes - please post results when it's done    The 9174 will be interesting as well but better suited to a 1.05a/r hotside.

[hardsteppa]

Have been using a G30-660 with a .73 exhaust housing the last few weeks. On RB25det at 1.5 bar, it is quite possibly the best turbo I've had on the car, sooooo responsive and pulls HARD to 7000rpm. It also controls boost better as on my setup I would get boost creep on ATR43ss2 and GTX3076gen2 that wanted to keep going past 1.5bar in the higher rpms. No dyno result as yet for it though.

Flame suit on, I know there's likely to be alot of "that's too small!" and from the compressor map, it might be close to the turbo's limits but a while back I was driving a stock BMW turbo 118i that was killing my car for daily driving and zippiness. This turbo seems a great match for daily driving and tighter circuits, mountain roads etc. Still wondering if I should move up to the G30-770 though... Thoughts are welcome.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

2 hours ago, hardsteppa said:

Still wondering if I should move up to the G30-770 though... Thoughts are welcome.

Really depends on your requirements of the car and how you use it.

More power is great but you always sacrifice something for it.

 

[GTSBoy]

2 hours ago, hardsteppa said:

Flame suit on, I know there's likely to be alot of "that's too small!"

2 hours ago, hardsteppa said:

Still wondering if I should move up to the G30-770 though..

Yeah, nah. If a turbo is big enough to make more power than is reasonable on the street, and small enough to come on and be useful on the street - you have the right turbo.

[hardsteppa]

thank you gentlemans's as always for your inputs. What do you think about overspeeding the turbo at 1.5 bar boost, 7500rpm? Assuming a VE of 95% which may drop off at upper rpms, shouldn't see more than max 55lbs per min?