Upgraded Fuel System Questions

[WantGTR]

Hi All, 

Just wanted to get every ones advice on a couple of things. currently upgrading the whole fuel system. fuel system will consist of 8an feed and return, turbosmart fpr2000, raceworks surge tank  with x2 walbro 460s and 1 walbro 460 in the tank. 

my question is, from the tank to the surge, im planning to use a push on 5/16 to 6an fitting to get from the tank to the Supply of the surge. is this large enough? if not how should i configure it.

Also, regarding the flex sensor which is to go in the return line. the return will be 8an, is the flex sensor in line going to be a 'bottle neck'?

car; r32 gtr if it makes a difference. 

looking forward to hearing feedback, thanks. 

[Mick_o]

Sounds like you are pretty much on the money mate. 

Yes you are also right that the flex sensor will become a restriction on the return line. The answer to that is simple just run a bypass. So a tee either side of the flex sensor as the sensor itself requires bugger all flow to read the content levels. 

Also dont forget to upgrade your tank breather line on your fuel hat! Run with something big like a -12 as now you're gunna have 3× 460 pumps trying to suck  the tank inside out. Often over looked but as soon as that tank starts coming into "vacuum" you will start to have fuel supply issues. So keep your tank at atmosperic pressure and those 3 pumps will be able to drink all they need ?

Edited November 23, 2017 by Mick_o

[MIX-GTR]

I think you will find the breather only has to out flow the injectors, what the pumps are doing is irrelevant as what ever fuel the injectors don't release goes back to the tank 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I would run a smaller lift pump, even a Wallahbro 255 or smalelr wherever to possible to reduce the heat production.. flex sensor, would just install it on the return between the surge & fuel tank

[Piggaz]

  On 24/11/2017 at 5:25 AM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

I would run a smaller lift pump, even a Wallahbro 255 or smalelr wherever to possible to reduce the heat production.. flex sensor, would just install it on the return between the surge & fuel tank

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Still has to be large enough to keep up with the demands of the twin feed pumps at full song draining the surge tank.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

  On 24/11/2017 at 7:20 AM, Piggaz said:

Still has to be large enough to keep up with the demands of the twin feed pumps at full song draining the surge tank.

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Correct but under less fuel pressure (pretty much 0.1bar) the Wallahbro 255 lift pump would perform about the same as say a single 460 Wallahbro at 5 bar (factoring in on boost on noise).

I don't have graphs as I'm on my phone.

[WantGTR]

  On 23/11/2017 at 4:45 AM, Mick_o said:

Sounds like you are pretty much on the money mate. 

Yes you are also right that the flex sensor will become a restriction on the return line. The answer to that is simple just run a bypass. So a tee either side of the flex sensor as the sensor itself requires bugger all flow to read the content levels. 

Also dont forget to upgrade your tank breather line on your fuel hat! Run with something big like a -12 as now you're gunna have 3× 460 pumps trying to suck  the tank inside out. Often over looked but as soon as that tank starts coming into "vacuum" you will start to have fuel supply issues. So keep your tank at atmosperic pressure and those 3 pumps will be able to drink all they need ?

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Thanks. General consensus seems to be bypass. 

If i was to use a large breather how would i configure it? Delete/block stock breather and fit an aftermarket bypass near the top of the filler neck?

  On 24/11/2017 at 5:25 AM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

I would run a smaller lift pump, even a Wallahbro 255 or smalelr wherever to possible to reduce the heat production.. flex sensor, would just install it on the return between the surge & fuel tank

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Long time ago it was just suppose to be a pump upgrade and shit.... yadda yadda yadda here we are. 

 

  On 24/11/2017 at 7:20 AM, Piggaz said:

Still has to be large enough to keep up with the demands of the twin feed pumps at full song draining the surge tank.

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I do agree with this though. Id like to retain the factory fuel hat as it has the stock fuel sender. Hence my question about a 6an supply from the tank to the surge being sufficient. Of all the fittings i know of a 5/16 push on to 8an doesnt exist. 

[WantGTR]

And whats the deal with filters. Aeroflow catalogue has big ones and small ones. How many and where. What micron bla bla

I was thinking 1 big one inline on the feed to the rail.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Being a R32 GTR I would run one from the tank to the surge as those tanks are metal.

Then one filter out of the pumps to the rail. This keeps the surge tank clean and happy and the injectors happy.

Size wise ask @Piggaz, he knows more about filtration than a Russian rocket scientist LOL

[r32-25t]

Tank in a 32 gtr is plastic 

[Piggaz]

40 micron between the main tank and surge, 6 or 10 between the surge and engine. Only makes sense to make them large.

[iruvyouskyrine]

32 GTR is plastic tank, all other models metal tank.

Please sort it your wiring to all those pumps and make sure it is capable. 3 Walbros will be a hell of a lot of current (even though 1 is a lift pump)

[Mick_o]

Good advice! ^^^ 

Also upgrade your alternator so it has enough beans to power them also! 

 

[WantGTR]

  On 25/11/2017 at 12:34 AM, iruvyouskyrine said:

32 GTR is plastic tank, all other models metal tank.

Please sort it your wiring to all those pumps and make sure it is capable. 3 Walbros will be a hell of a lot of current (even though 1 is a lift pump)

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Yes wiring is sorted and wont be a problem.

  On 25/11/2017 at 12:44 AM, Mick_o said:

Good advice! ^^^ 

Also upgrade your alternator so it has enough beans to power them also! 

 

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Was thinking to see how it goes, if the alternator doesnt like then look at an ARD one.

[Mick_o]

  On 25/11/2017 at 2:10 AM, WantGTR said:

Yes wiring is sorted and wont be a problem.

Was thinking to see how it goes, if the alternator doesnt like then look at an ARD one.

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Spend the $$$ now mate and save yourself the grief of having issues on the dyno. 

That way you aren't paying your tuner to troubleshoot problems and you reduce your chance of starving your engine of fuel and hurting it.  Which is cheaper in the long run because lets face it you're putting alot of extra load on an alternator thats almost 3 decades old. So why put off the inevitable now and potentially risk your motor? 

[Piggaz]

Ahh the old stock alternator with close to an extra 40 amps worth of load in feed pumps. They only produce 80 amp at full tilt. Just do it now!

Power, power, power. More, more, more. Where is it all coming from? ?

[WantGTR]

  On 25/11/2017 at 2:33 AM, Piggaz said:

Ahh the old stock alternator with close to an extra 40 amps worth of load in feed pumps. They only produce 80 amp at full tilt. Just do it now!

Power, power, power. More, more, more. Where is it all coming from? ?

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coming from my wallet it seems haha

[Piggaz]

And then when you upgrade your alternator, I'll bet my left nut your voltage at the pumps rise. So now the pumps are singing along a bit quicker, flowing more... AFR's get rich... tune is out. Let's go for another excursion to the dyno.

What you tried to save, you bought anyway THEN add in another dyno session and the heartache of it all.

 

[WantGTR]

  On 25/11/2017 at 2:44 AM, Piggaz said:

And then when you upgrade your alternator, I'll bet my left nut your voltage at the pumps rise. So now the pumps are singing along a bit quicker, flowing more... AFR's get rich... tune is out. Let's go for another excursion to the dyno.

What you tried to save, you bought anyway THEN add in another dyno session and the heartache of it all.

 

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  On 25/11/2017 at 2:23 AM, Mick_o said:

Spend the $$$ now mate and save yourself the grief of having issues on the dyno. 

That way you aren't paying your tuner to troubleshoot problems and you reduce your chance of starving your engine of fuel and hurting it.  Which is cheaper in the long run because lets face it you're putting alot of extra load on an alternator thats almost 3 decades old. So why put off the inevitable now and potentially risk your motor? 

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you bastards lol, i was 50/50 about this, knowing full well about the possible scenarios if i didnt upgrade. in anycase, RHDJapan will be getting yet another order from me.

[Piggaz]

Atleast you can use your RHD points ?