Off season engine maintenance or swap?

[No Crust Racing]

CA powered car, original bottom end, but with fresh headgasket and ARP studs. 143ks, and still has fairly decent compression 155-160 cold (new is 172) though as with all Nissan's it likes to pressurise the sump - I run dual catch cans to help this, top and and bottom end vented to atmo separately via baffled cans. Intake and exhaust manifold gaskets also fresh, a few seals been replaced around the place also, rockers, half moons etc, but some things still leak. 

At the last event for the year, it blew a coolant line to the turbo and drained the radiator, no big deal as I was planning on changing out the T28 BB and going E85 on an externally gated GTX2860R and some 256 cams anyway (Just acquired the cams and already have the turbo). Still need external gate, injectors and to modify the manifold to take it all (turbo is T3 and vband rear so will need different manifold flange, dump, and intake). 

Given I will be removing the manifold anyway, I considered removing the engine to replace the 28yr old hoses all over the place that are difficukt to get to otherwise and tidy up some of the loom/connectors which are also a bit worse for wear (race tape holding them on etc).

Engine also has minor front crank, and rear main seal leak - though I did replace the rear main when I did I the clutch, so could actually be higher up on the back of the motor as the half moons are notorious for leaking even though they are new, as are the rocker gaskets. Oh, also has a small weep from the speedo sensor on the box where the mounting surface was scored, has new extension housing seal but also appears to be maybe leaking from there, already has new upper seal around shifter etc and doesn't appear to be a breather issue. 

So now I'm tossing up what to do. 

• 1: Continue with turbo swap and retune, do nothing else., drive til it dies, ignore leaks, do things after it's dead.
• 2: Continue with turbo swap but pull motor and put fresh hoses in, fix leaking front and rear seals, do what I can for connectors, new water pump and accessory belts and clean up anything else obvious (Car already has new timing belt). 
• 3: Pull motor, do all of the above but also freshen up the bottom end, just a basic Spool forged kit or something, but that means new headgaset and full disassembly etc. The Nissan has been let out also.
• 4: Acquire decent second hand forged CA, they do turn up, freshen up anything needed (I just mean seals/belts), put back in with new turbo setup, sell old motor running.  
• 5: Pull motor, replace with freshened up or 2nd hand forged SR (probably blacktop for the VCT and being newer sensors). Probably wouldn't bother going through the hassle of a swap for a stock SR. This would mean buying different cams, ECU swap, different radiator, wiring work, better coilpacks (I have splitfires for the CA), dick around with cluster, change bell housing, not sure about clutch etc etc. Sell current motor running and all my CA shit.
   

The CA has been good to me and keeps me in a class I can be competitive in, but she is getting on in age and the boys and I are considering trying to do 5 rounds of a series next year, I'm thinking about what I can do in the off season to make next year easier. I am a jew on this car also (car is still 4 stud for example), the GT-R gets love and $$, The Sil makes do with second hand parts, shit from other silvia's/skylines a upgrades and DIY shenanigans  

Kinda leaning towards 2 or 4. Though the extra mid range torque and response of the bigger SR would be great for track work - even if they do sound like shit and that's not up for debate. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[GTofuS-T]

2 hours ago, ActionDan said:

2nd hand forged SR

after all the shit you've given SR's you can't do this

I'd go for 2 over 4, if it's off season and don't need it running (i.e. daily) while you prep it then why go through the hassle of buying an unknown engine? and then also having to deal with shit kickers lowballing you when you go to sell the current engine.

But i must be more of a jew, as I'd go with 1. leaks aren't going to kill an engine surely? just keep topping her up and hope for the best. Plus option 2 is going to cause a mass headache, the amount of "just did an engine swap and now it's not firing/running right/etc" threads/FB posts you see is insane. 

In regards to the turbo water line, checking your thread, looks like a braided hose, was it custom? who made it? it's blowing my be related to itself more than the engine. Just a thought.

[GTofuS-T]

OR

go with number 4, cause let's be realistic, once you have a bare engine to play with, you're gonna be like "may as well go forged since it's sitting there and easy to disassemble".. next minute your'e send the head off to NAPREC and engine build takes 2 years so flog the current one to death. Don't even bother changing the turbo cause may as well save the cash and just buy an EFR for the new build

[No Crust Racing]

Oh I don't think the line failed because of the motor, it's just old and I also had an off track excursion to avoid hitting someone which may be related.

Wanting to fix leaks was not about the engine failing it was more about the fact that my car is dropping gearbox and engine oil onto a race surface.

I've had a couple of coolant hose leaks along the way and been lucky that I could get to them at the track. There's a bunch of coolant and vacuum lines under the plenum that are impossible to get to with the engine in the car and the manifold attached to the Head.

[260DET]

If oil pressure is good particularly hot when idling then go with 2, above all a track engine needs to be reliable and not drop shit. 

[admS15]

#6 Fit LS1[emoji6]

[No Crust Racing]

Hmm not sure about idling oil pressure actually.

What's healthy?

[No Crust Racing]

Just something else to consider, and why I thought about finding a good used forged engine, car currently only makes 185-190rwkw and not much torque being a CA.

The new turbo, cams, and e85 means I'm expecting somewhere between 220-240rwkw. Which will mean higher peak cylinder pressure and i was concerned the standard bottom may not love life - though I know e85 will keep the whole thing cooler and it will not be tuned on the ragged edge. 

Option 2 still looking like a good one, though I'll cry if it lets go on the dyno/first track day. 

I'll remove the radiator and have a good look in the bay and see what work i could possibly do without removing it, but I'm almost of the opinion that it would be faster to just remove it and do that turbo swap on the stand. 

 

 

[niZmO_Man]

15 hours ago, admS15 said:

#6 Fit LS1

I wonder if a VR30 will fit...

[No Crust Racing]

Anything fits with enough time and money... I did like the idea of VQ37 and a nice low maintenance NA 220rwkw, but it 's not a cheap swap at all and you might as well do an LS instead and have greater power to tap into.

4 bangers keep me in a reasonable class and keep the weight balance happy. 

Turbo F20C?

[Leroy Peterson]

It's a CA in a S13. Drive it till it literally won't crank over anymore. Fix everything else with race tape and cable ties.
Only then go down your SR route. Anyone who had a car off the road for over 12 months will tell you seat time is more rewarding/fun than building a car with a dream parts list.

[No Crust Racing]

It's mostly race tape and cable ties now

That's partly my point, you don't get seat time if you rock up and it splits another f**king hose. 

 

[GTofuS-T]

3 minutes ago, Leroy Peterson said:

It's a CA in a S13. Drive it till it literally won't crank over anymore. Fix everything else with race tape and cable ties.
Only then go down your SR route. Anyone who had a car off the road for over 12 months will tell you seat time is more rewarding/fun than building a car with a dream parts list.

 

2 minutes ago, ActionDan said:

It's mostly race tape and cable ties now
That's partly my point, you don't get seat time if you rock up and it splits another f**king hose. 

This is what keeps my R33 relatively standard, the amount of top dollar builds on this forum alone that have multiple continuous track days ruined by little things happening, it's just not worth it (for me), unless someone else is footing the bill.

9 track days in the last 12 months, 1.5 hr drive to and from the track (in the car), no major issues, improved times each session from experience & happy

Each to their own though, If i had the room like you do, and it's obviously not being used for the summer, then i'd probably go for it. But also removing a manifold would be way easier than removing an engine? although leaning over the car for hours working on it is a pain and I think you said you had back issues? 

[No Crust Racing]

Herniated disc, damn you're paying attention lol To be fair I swapped the headgasket when I broke my leg #committment. 

Yeah I'm thinking 2, pull it out which makes the hoses/manifold swap 10x easier and just freshen up some basic things, bang back in and hope it survives the tune

[GTofuS-T]

1 hour ago, ActionDan said:

Herniated disc, damn you're paying attention lol

If only I could remember important shit

[No Crust Racing]

Been pondering this more and running some real numbers. 

I don't see the point in going through all the hassle of pulling the current engine just to do hoses/seals and turbo swap and put it back only to have it throw a hissy fit on the dyno/first track day from the extra power. For that labour, I might as well put something better in. I don't on an engine crane or stand so there's additional hassle in getting those anyway. 

I'm thinking I'm just going to repair the busted coolant line and run it as it and buy a second hand motor with low comp and do a budget build on the side while I keep flogging this one. I don't know if I'll have the time to get it out, worked on, tuned, back in before the first event starts next year and seat time is going to take priority. Also means I an do some other things I wanted like extra sump vents and the like. 

Whether that's a CA or SR remains to be seen, I would love the extra torque and response of a VCT SR, but that means new ECU, (though @Dose Pipe Sutututu tells me you can run an SR from a CA nistune and loom somehow?)  other wiring issues, new cams are useless in that motor, current splitfires are no good to me so would need another set, need bellhousing, need different clutch etc etc

A Basic forged CA might be the ticket, in terms of ease of install, not needing new cam gears/cams, sounds better, etc?

The CA is the cheaper route, even in terms of spool rebuild kits the CA is the cheaper kit vs SR, but if we were putting this same GTX2860R on both engines, I imagine the result would be largely the same, so do I just go the cheaper route and stay loyal to the CA or do I spend a bit extra and have the more torquey and responsive setup then start blowing gearboxes? 

It's just so damn gutless torque wise  currently. 

 

 

 

[Dale FZ1]

8 hours ago, ActionDan said:

 

The CA is the cheaper vs SR, but if we were putting this same GTX2860R on both engines, I imagine the result would be largely the same, so do I just go the cheaper route and stay loyal to the CA or do I spend a bit extra and have the more torquey and responsive setup then start blowing gearboxes? 

It's just so damn gutless torque wise  currently. 

 

Operating either engine above the boost threshold for the turbo, yep the result will be largely similar.  It's not like you've selected a monster sized turbo, and it's not going to be that hard to keep the engine spinning at 3500 even on the slowest corners.

Turbos (ie airflow) make torque so the 2860 will make a world of difference to a stock CA.

A 2860 won't make that much torque that you will strip the gears in your box.  Track work on a tarmac circuit doesn't see shock load/unload situations like you will on a gravel rally stage.  (that can/does cause problems).  I find it's drivers that generally break gearboxes.

[No Crust Racing]

I get what what you're saying but you know there's more to it than that.

The CAs lower displacement and non square bore to stroke ratio means it makes less torque than the SR everywhere all else being equal.

Of course you can pop in another few psi of boost to compensate, but you cant do Mucha about off boost situations, and yeah I get you when you say drive to the conditions/torque curve (keep revs above 3500 etc).

Re the box, that was more an SR comment as the I've seen lots of them busted at 240-250rwkw, but admittedly they were drift cars and I'm more mechanically sympathetic unless race chrono tells me I'm up coming into the last sector

If I did go SR, I'd probably sell this turbo for a 2863 or 67 as the extra response available from the extra cc's and variable cam mean you can get away with something a bit bigger without adding lag.

[Dale FZ1]

Cubic inches do count.  I agree with that.

But the effort + cost vs return on investment doesn't add up here.

Following your build thread, I'd be tipping the coin into decent tyres (and often).

And chasing down a proper close ratio dog box.

Those two things would add much more speed.

[No Crust Racing]

Box is a good 4-5k investment for minimal lap time gain.

I'm already busy on the trick as it is being a CA. 

My wallet and workload say build a CA, my desire for grunt says go bigger.